widescreen questions...and 5.1 ?'s too!

scottshackrock wrote on 6/15/2004, 11:11 PM

ok, so I have my MINIDV project filmed, and its on my comp now.
normal NTSC footage, etc.

It is a HUGE pain to open the pan/crop in EVERY SINGLE event in my timeline (which is like over 500 and sometimes 1000 things!) and hit "widescreen 16:9". Is there a way to just do this over the master channel of the video? like, just say crop EVERYTHING to that?

Also, the 16:9 doesn't really look like it's as skinny as a cinema movie would be in the theatres...is it in reality?

lastly, I can't figure out what settings to put it on if I want to mix down my final project to an MPEG-2 (for use on a DVD, full quality)...WITH my 16:9 setting(s) staying put...aka make it widescreen! Like, there are so many options in the menu that it's sometimes too hard to figure out for me. I just woudl like ot KNOW what to put it as...ha. (ratio, interlacing, etc. etc. etc.!).

thanks guys, and sorry if this is dumb/alreadyt answered querstions. I can't seem to find the straight up answer! ha.

oh oh, and one last thing:
with 5.1 surround mixing - I have 5 channels of audio...plus a bass channel? do I create that bass channel with vegas 5 too? or is it just kinda taking the bass freaquencies from my other 5 channels and outputting it all to the sub?

thanks again!

Comments

Phil_A wrote on 6/16/2004, 12:12 AM

Just click the upper left button, in the VIDEO PREVIEW window and set your project as: NTSC DV Widescreen. All 16:9 footage will fill the screen and 4:3 footage will be windowboxed.

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/16/2004, 12:14 AM

Have you inserted FX to any of the events yet? If not, simply set the first event to 16:9 in the pan/crop tool, copy it, and then select all of the rest of the events. Then paste attributes.
Another option is to use a mask, you can make one with generated media to create the bars at top/bottom of the project.
You can also use the Zenote plug on the overall project that will crop all to a widescreen.
Render as a normal 4:3 image with the letter box if you don't want stretching. I'm assuming your project was shot 4:3, right?
Create a sub channel, and only send audio destined for impact to that sub. Dialog for instance, doesn't belong in the sub at all. Most music doesn't either. Effects belong in the LFE channel by definition. It's an effect channel, not a copy of main audio channel with enhanced bass.

scottshackrock wrote on 6/16/2004, 7:45 AM

so does the sub not work at all if I send no audio to it?

as for the widescreen...

my project is being shot with a normal minidv Sony home video camera...ha. So i guess that is 4:3???

Anyway, with the footage on the timeline and NOT cropped at all, and me setting the properties thing to "NTSC DV WIDESCREEN", it squishes the image...SIDEWAYS!! haha. I want it to CROP it at the top and bottom, not SQUISH it in SIDEWAYS. you know? So how can I fix this? ha.

I rather not buy another plugin (zenote) to do something that can already be done in vegas though you know?

farss wrote on 6/16/2004, 8:18 AM

16:9 is 'squished' unless you view it on a 16:9 monitor or set the Vegas preview window to 'Simulate Device Aspect Ratio'.
What you want is to letterbox 16:9 into 14:3, so what you see is a 16:9 window in a 4:3 frame.

re your previous question, film isn't 16:9, I think it's 1.85:1 which is a bit wider or the widescreen format is 2.1:1. Stretching 4:3 DV, particularly NTSC DV that far is going to drop the vertical res down an aweful lot.

JaysonHolovacs wrote on 6/16/2004, 8:42 AM

I don't think film is 1.85:1, although that is a common size in DVDs. I think true widescreen film-style DVDs are 2.35:1. You'll notice if you look at a few widescreen DVDs that you'll see a number of aspect ratios, such as: 4:3(standard TV), (16:9, which I believe is standard for HDTV widescreen), 1.85:1(which is not exactly mathmatically equivalent ot 16:9, but it is close and perhaps represents basically the same thing), and 2.35:1(which has a really wide screen which looks more like film.

But if you try to use 2.35:1 off of a 4:3 source, you are cropping a large part of the image away. If my quick calculations are correct, you are retaining only 57% of the image when cropping from 4:3 to 2.35:1. So, it will cost you.

24Peter wrote on 6/16/2004, 9:34 AM

Back to the original question of cropping multiple clips, is there a way to do this in the media pool (kind of like the media FX button)? So, for instance, all my clips will be pre-cropped prior to placing them on the timeline?

bStro wrote on 6/16/2004, 9:45 AM

After you've made all your changes / effects, render your project to a 4:3 AVI. Create a new project, drag the AVI onto the timeline, and Pan & Crap it. One event, no fuss, no muss.

Rob

scottshackrock wrote on 6/17/2004, 4:35 PM

yeah... is there a way to do this to everything or just over the entire project as a whole?

and....

so let me get this striaght because you guys are talking about ratios and it's all over my head, HA!!

I should pan/crop everything to 16:9 (all my events)...then just render as a normal NTSC DV video?

scottshackrock wrote on 6/18/2004, 8:15 AM

busterkeaton wrote on 6/18/2004, 10:59 AM

Most 35mm film is 1.85 :1. (or maybe it's just projected at 1:85 :1)
Only super widescreen formats like Cinemascope are 2.35:1

Most movies before the 1950's were 1.33 : 1.
Regular 16mm film is still 1:33:1

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/evolution.htm
http://www.widescreen.org/aspect_ratios.shtml

RichMacDonald wrote on 6/18/2004, 11:32 AM

>so does the sub not work at all if I send no audio to it?

The sub will pick up the bass from the other 5 speakers. No need to route the bass to the LFE channel. In fact, don't even bother with the LFE channel unless you have some special effect (earthquakes et al.) and audio theater equipment that will treat it specifically.

JJKizak wrote on 6/18/2004, 11:45 AM

Original Cinemascope was 2.66 x 1 and over the years Panavision kind of settled into the 2.35 x 1. Maybe because of the overscan requirements of tv the 2.5 x 1 gets knocked down to 2.35 x 1. The actual ratio on the lenses was 2.66 x 1 (printed).

JJK

scottshackrock wrote on 6/18/2004, 8:41 PM

yeah i suppose this is the best bet, thanks brah.

RexA wrote on 6/19/2004, 1:50 PM

I think the concepts of LFE and low bass in 5.1 surround mixing could require a small book.

Most home theater sound systems can be set to send the low frequencies from the 5 speaker channels to a subwoofer. Any LFE channel signal always goes to the subwoofer. If the receiver implements bass management (redirecting the low bass from 5 to .1) there is usually a setting for the frequency below which bass is directed from the main speakers to the sub.

My Denon receiver has many variations on this theme depending on how you configure the options about speaker size, crossover frequency, and so forth.

Vegas does not have any options that simulate this redirection of bass from the main speakers to the sub. Only what you specifically put on the LFE channel will be monitored on the .1 channel. Some sound cards can be configured to do the bass redirection, or I suppose, you could feed into a home theater receiver that will do it.

Here's something suprising I found about hollywood commercial DVDs. I wanted to see how they handle the bass in a pro mix. I ripped the AC3 audio from two heavy bass DVDs ("Saving Private Ryan" and "U-571"). What I found was not what I expected. On both of these DVDs the LFE channel was silent. My subwoofer does a great job of shaking the house when I watch these DVDs but apparently all of the audio reaching it is coming from the settings on my receiver redirecting the bass from the other speakers. So I guess the pros have decided to put the bass exactly where they want it and let the playback configuration determine how it gets generated in the room.

So my inclination now is to mix letting all frequencies get to the 5 main speakers and not use the LFE channel at all. The drawback is you need a huge speaker system, or some way outside of vegas to manage the bass.