Wishlist: Vegas' Titler

JasonMurray wrote on 9/4/2004, 1:29 AM
I posted this list a couple of weeks ago in another thread, and thought maybe it was worth stirring up some more discussion on it now (and, for everyone who didnt read the initial post, getting some ideas & reactions).

Here's a some things (in no particular order) I'd like to see addressed with Vegas' titler component in a future update. My intention is to send this to Sony via the Product Suggestion link under Support, but I'd also appreciate any input from the Sony folks who browse this forum as well.

So, on with the list...

1. Title entry window:
- way too small - should scale to the size of the current Video Event F/X window (common beef I have with most of Vegas' plugins, though).
- font display dropdown should optionally show the name of the font in the font face itself (a la MS Word)

2. The placement area should have magnification to offer pixel-perfect positioning of your title.

3. The X/Y text boxes in the placement area should allow you to use up/down cursor keys to control their contents (shift, ctrl and alt can be used as modifiers to alter the increments). They should also be switchable into pixels mode so you can specifically tell the title where it should be on screen (to go with this, you should be able to specify whether you're talking about the dead center of the title, or the top-left of the title).

4. On placement, a grid would also be nice along with a snap-to-grid function. The ability to snap to the safe area would be nice too.

5. Under Properties, RGBA text boxes should allow cursor up/down keys to alter their values. I actually love the colour sliders :)

6. Additional effects would be nice in order to keep pace with other applications:
- Gradient fill (specify the gradient, angle, etc and whether it applies globally or to every line or every letter individually, and its opactity)
- Bevel / Emboss (specify the bevel type, size, colours, light direction, etc)
- Outline - ability to specify a gradient instead of a solid colour (and similar to gradient fill options)
- Texture fill (specify an image, and whether it applies globally etc a la gradient fill)

I realise it sounds a lot like a Photoshop featureset, but guess what ... I'm a Photoshop user. And people are recommending the use of Photoshop to generate titles simply because it's capable of doing this stuff. But I'd rather it were all possible simply and easily within Vegas without having to mess around with a lot of additional plugins

For me, if these points/features were addressed/added I'd simply adore Vegas' titler.

Please feel free to post more suggestions or comments...

Comments

Grazie wrote on 9/4/2004, 2:14 AM
Sample Text "Font" style to display fonts as per my MS Word . . . ! I'm using the fonts that came with XP Pro . . go figure? That'll be a start for me .. and yes I've bought Boris Graf3.0 . . .

Grazie
JasonMurray wrote on 9/4/2004, 5:56 AM
You mean the font selection dropdown should use the actual font rather than just displaying the name of the font?

If so ... I'd say "Preference setting" -- if you've got a lot of fonts that can have performance implications...? (I have a hardcopy printout of my fonts next to the computer) but its still a good idea :)
johnmeyer wrote on 9/4/2004, 9:16 AM
Personally, I would recommend to Sony that they take the Titler code out behind the woodshed and shoot it. Just adding a bandaid here and there, or changing a UI function here and there is not what is needed. Instead, they should look at the spectrum of titling programs -- both independent and bundled -- and come up with an invention of their own that beats all of them and that integrates into Vegas (no more uselss marketing bundles like Boris, please -- it looks great in the marketing literature, but doesn't really sovle the problem).

I have not used many titling programs, so my input on what programs are good is not very useful. However, I always have liked the simplicity and the results from Titledekko.
PH125 wrote on 9/4/2004, 9:47 AM
I'd say a modified form of tiledeko would be great in vegas. That's the one thing I always liked about Pinnacle's products.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/4/2004, 10:08 AM
Yea, I like TitleDeko too. :(

If I had only one wish for the Titler, it would be to allow you to paste font attributes WITHOUT changing the text. How many times have you decided to change the font of all your titles or the color of all your titles? There is no way to do this. Not even with a script. Paste Attributes will only paste event attributes. Presets save and overwrite the text. There is just no way to automatically do this. I think this could easily be solved by removing the text save from presets or at least make that an option.

~jr
Jessariah67 wrote on 9/4/2004, 10:45 AM
The day a Vegas Upgrade is released with a titling engine that has dropable, keyframable FX (much like the Video FX that currently exist) will be the day that it becomes the "premiere" PC-based NLE. To me, that is one thing that would make a bigger jump in the attention it gets over almost anything else. Boris GL was a nice thought, but I don't have 5 years to learn it. Wild FX Pro is a nice program, but limited once you get beyond the uinitial "cool stuff."

Even if it was a stand-alone program, I'd pay the extra to have Sony's intuitiveness & integration.

Perhaps Zenoté will come through with something. I don't know. Just wish someone would take up the cause...
farss wrote on 9/4/2004, 4:06 PM
John,
I couldn't agree more. And let me add it has to be a CG that understands video, NOT multimedia. These are totally different beasts. This will be painful for some, even goign from PAL to NTSC means a serious change it how text is handled due to different field rates.
I'm not talking anything flash, just basic text with crawl and roll that works properly without requiring the user to engage in a lot of maths and hit and miss guesswork.
As to the suggestions of using 3rd party apps such as PS, ever tried looking at what happens to text created in PS when you animate it on a decent monitor? You could be in for some nasty shocks.
Text crawls and rolls are the benchmark I'd judge any NLE by now that I'm a bit more 'aware'. Vegas has the BEST DV Codec, it does the best job of any at interpolation, all it needs is the same brains applied to text and they have a world beater.

Bob.
StormMarc wrote on 9/4/2004, 4:19 PM
I have to agree that the Vegas titler is really lame compared to most other programs. The Premiere titler is quite good.

Marc
wcoxe1 wrote on 9/4/2004, 6:35 PM
The titler was the very first thing that I found "detracting" from Vegas Video, back when I started in Version 3. I tried to suggest a few things to SF, then to Sony, but no one seems to notice.

Even in the current framework, it would be ever so easy to just have two of each type of everything, instead of one, to allow versitility. I don't want everything of one side to be exactly the same font or color all the time. Have it so that you have a least two choices for every size.

Now, that was my idea within a few hours after installing Vegas Video 3.0 for the very first time, and I suggested it, but nothing, not even that, has come down the pike.

Now, years later, that suggestion, compared to things like Cayman Graphics and Title Deko and others frequently mentioned on this forum, seems really lame. But we still don't have it, or ANYTHING better than it was way back when.

I love Vegas, and I am sure that given enough time and practice and LOTS of help from all you inventive and intelligent guys and gals on this forum a person with infinite amounts of time on their hands could do a LOT more than I can do with the Vegas Titler. But, who wants to go through all that when things like Title Deko and Cayman Graphics, etc. can do so much, so easily.

Please, Sony. Are you listening? Please! It should be there, built-in. Just THINK of the marketing you could do! Just think of how HAPPY all of us old timers would be come upgrade time. People forking over upgrade fees right and left. Just think of it.
Jessariah67 wrote on 9/4/2004, 9:51 PM
Seriously...

If V6 was announced, and ALL it had was an overhauled titler, I'd pay the $$$. I'm tired of rendering in other apps & bringing in alpha'd MOV files, etc. I know how it could work within Vegas. Smart. Slick. Intuitive.

It drives me nuts that it doesn't exist..
vectorskink wrote on 9/4/2004, 11:26 PM
Has anybody played with LiveType in FCP??? How cool is that?!
PeterWright wrote on 9/5/2004, 1:18 AM
I use the Titler a lot and am generally content - my modest requests would be the ability to have different colours for different words or letters, plus gradients and bevels, and grouping events for bulk colour/font/size changes, already mentioned ....

From the praise of Title Deko in this thread it must have improved - I had the first couple of versions and although it always looked good, it was terrible for text frames moving unpredictably - you'd move one word the left, and another would move or even disappear off screen
beerandchips wrote on 9/5/2004, 8:55 AM
Livetype in FCP is OUTSTANDING. Too bad we are eating oatmeal without sugar with the Vegas tiltler.
stepfour wrote on 9/5/2004, 1:14 PM
.... and even badder is that we're doing it in a sweet NLE like Vegas.

I will keep hoping (sometimes only a glimmer) that Sony will say enough is enough and and build a text module that will humble the competition. It's long overdue.
cayman wrote on 9/5/2004, 6:57 PM
How about the name of the font, in the correct typeface?

Jeff McOmie
Cayman Graphics
biggles wrote on 9/6/2004, 1:57 AM
>How about the name of the font, in the correct typeface?

I second that! I use a little program called Font Glancer to check this sort of thing - sure would be nice to be able to do it all inside Vegas.
farss wrote on 9/6/2004, 2:31 AM
Jeff,
how about Cayman for Vegas?
I've tried the demo version but must have installed it wrong as I couldn't figure out how to do a simple credit roll and then export that.
I realise I need to do this outside of Vegas. The installer gve me a couple of choice, which one to use so I can just generate an AVI with alpha to bring into Vegas.

Apart from that I LOVE the thing, built by people who understand video.

Bob.
cayman wrote on 9/6/2004, 8:53 AM
Bob (farss)

To use Power CG without the vegas plugin you will need to export the roll title as a TGA
image (ie 720 by big number). Then use Vegas a to do the actual scrolling. The way that
the Plugin is planned, you will just drop the roll title into the timeline, set the duration of the roll,
and Power CG will take care of the rest.

Thanks

Jeff McOmie
Cayman Graphics

Spot|DSE wrote on 9/6/2004, 9:20 AM
Farss,
With any luck, we'll soon have the Cayman tool working inside of Vegas. The guys there are very responsive, and seem to be working on it pretty hard.
Jeff, can't wait to see what you guys come up with!!