Working systems

OldSmoke wrote on 3/31/2013, 12:28 PM

This Thread is in response to a post in another thread http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=854879&Replies=15 by TheHappyFriar and I also think it may help others in search of a working home build PC system to have users with no problems posting their specs in full. I have build my own systems since the age of the 80386 CPUs and MS DOS 3.0 which may explain the shiny surface on top of my head.

Here are the specs of my current system:

Casing: Corsair Graphite 600T Mesh
Power Supply: CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX1200
CPU: i7-3930K (o.c. @4.4 stable 24/7)
Cooler: Corsair H100
Motherboard: Intel DX79SR
Memory: GSkill F3-17000CL11Q-16GBXL; 16GB@1600MHz
Graphic Card(s): 2x ASUS ENGTX570, 1280MB DDR5 (o.c. @875MHz, Drv. 296.10, No SLI, No SLI Bridge)
System Drive: Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC
Storage Drive: RAID 1 onboard Marvel Controller with 2x Western Digital Red WD20EFRX 2TB IntelliPower 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
Editing Drive: RAID 0 onboard Intel Controller with 2x Kingston 128GB SDDNow +100
Render Drive: RAID 0 onboard Intel Controller with 2x Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC (also contains all temp folders for Vegas)
DVD Drive: ASUS BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS
Monitor(s): 2x Samsung SyncMaster 2333SW, 1x Samsung SyncMaster 2033SW (calibrated with Spyder Express 2)
UPS: APC Backup-UPS BX1500G
OS: Win7 Pro x64
SCS: Vegas Pro 12, Build 394
HID: Wireless Logitech MK700/710 with MK705 mouse (I only use the Legacy Driver)
Shuttle Xpress

Issues: Aside from some known bugs in VP12, red preview window is the one that made me switch back to build 394, I have no prblems with GPU Acceleration or any other instability. NB Titler can cause problems and so does BCC8 sometimes.

Average Project: 5-10min, HDV & AVCHD footage, 8-bit, most used plug-ins are brightness & contrast, color corrector, secondary color corrector, text, solids and cross fade transistions.
Biggest Project: 3 Cam editing (2x HDV, 1x AVCHD), approx. 1 hour, delivered on DVD and BluRay with menus authored with DVDA 6.

Notes: This is my 2nd upgrade since 2011 where I started with a i7-2600K followed by a i7-3770K. I always used GTX cards and started with an ASUS ENGTX460 which already under VP11 worked flawless. I only switched to the GTX570 when I read the report on SCS website and rendered their benchmark project on my system. I found the i7-2600K to be as good as the i7-3770K; the i7-3770K tended to overheat when I rendered with codecs that don't use as much GPU as others such as Quicktime.
Aside from VP12 I also have installed full MS Office package, 3D CAD software and many others on my system.
Changes made to Win7: Minimum Pagefile size (1024MB) on System drive; no other pagefile; Windows Update is set to manual only to prevent Windows to install a newer graphic card driver or other unwanted changes to the OS. No chages made to VP12; Dynamic Preview RAM set at 200 which is the default and fastest on this system and my previous ones.

Test: rendertest-2010 renders in 33sec. using the HDV 1080-60i template and render quality set to best.

I hope this isn't too much information and please, I am not advertising for any of the products used in my system.

Comments

videoITguy wrote on 3/31/2013, 12:42 PM

OldSmoke, this is a great effort to come to some detail about system builds that work.
Several observations in no particular order.
1) Forgive me for saying so but your build is not very remarkable, and I will explain in the following points. But what I would conclude, the issues still lay mostly with workflows, input sources, and in another way what your expectations are for complex compositing, with video cards setup for live preview.
2) That said, your motherboard is no longer available, hence we've got to be very carefull identifying chipsets, and other issues that deal with built-in on-board processing including USB3.0, PCI slot layout...yes I am afraid this is a can of worms.
3)I did like the fact that you pointed out what you were doing with external hardware, that could be very important with drivers identified.
4) You don't go into great detail - about the workflow - I think this is most important - expectations of compositing or single track edits?- nesting choices in projects, use of intermediates to get to final, length of timeline that you render in one step....there is a lot to cover here- i think you get the idea.
5) Finally back to the OS base - how do you work with Windows? do you lets of alternate start-up processes run concurrently? let Windows do it's own updates? control carefully which versions of background processes like Windows net services get installed? User account control? etc. etc.

rmack350 wrote on 3/31/2013, 1:26 PM

Maybe you guys should work on a standardized checklist. If each post had this much exposition I wouldn't read it all.

Rob

OldSmoke wrote on 3/31/2013, 1:28 PM

My response related to the numbers.

1) I had no intention to brag about by system. The intention was to list a system that is stable and utilizes GPU acceleration as it is intented. If the issue as you say is with workflow, then this is the wrong thread. The intention here is to provide information about hardware which is the basis. How you "drive" it is a different story.
2) Again, I am not asking anyone to buy any of the components used in my system but it might show that certain combinations work better then others; the whole point of this thread. By the way, X79 boards are plenty arround.
3) I actually forgot one point. The additon of the UPS was one of the first upgrades I did. It solved many instability issues not only with Vegas but with Windows and other software too. The UPS has a power meter on it and during rendering it can go up to 480W; sufficient to make the light in the room flicker and so does scrubbing on the time line.
4) I keep workflow as simple as possible. I transfer footage to my storage drive, copy it to my editing drive and back it up after day of work. No intermediates as I only work with HDV and AVCHD. I always render the whole project, anywhere from 2-60min. I also render to multiple formats overnight using batch render.
5) I havent made any major changes to my OS. Windows Update is set to manual to avoid the Nvidia driver update (nVidia - Graphics Adapter WDDM1.1, Graphics Adapter WDDM1.2, Other hardware - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570) that Windows wants to install. It messes up the 296.10 driver making the system unstable again. Windows Startup, User Control and so on is the same it was when I made the first install, no change there. The .Net is version 4 and it is the only one installed; I just checked.

Again, this thread is more intended as a knowledge base for those who want to build their own systems; a reference of systems that do work with VP12 as intented by SCS (aside from the known bugs)

videoITguy wrote on 3/31/2013, 2:56 PM

Thanks Old Smoke, for your update. Unknowingly, in your point by point explanations you gave away some KEY pieces of evidence.

1) Your workflow does not deal with complicated composites and a total absence of use of intermediates.
2) You hold back to native driver on video-card to it's own manufacturing date of the card (I assume this, you did not verify this with more detail).
3)And a telling example of how your Microsoft Net services, may be installed - i.e., version 4, rather than what most multi-year history passes would have created in the Microsoft update pattern of their development staging.

Thanks much for responding, this is good info for all.

OldSmoke wrote on 3/31/2013, 3:41 PM

1) Yes, as simple as possible without compromising the final product
2) Actually, the GTX570 was delivered with driver 285.?? and I used 275.33 for a long time. In late 2011 when I still had my two GTX460s and VP11 I spent 4 days, yes 4 days testing different drivers and combinations of SLI, No SLI, with bridge without, single card and so on and finally settled on 275.33 to be fastest driver for any combination and no SLI & no SLI bridge to be the fastest setup too. When I changed to a GTX570 I expected it to work better with later drivers and spent another day only to find out that 275.33 was still the best. Only later, with VP12 did I change to 296.10 as it is more stable under this version of Vegas.
3) Not sure how to read that. I did last clean install of Win7x64 when I changed to my current 3930K based system in January this year. My Windows 7 installation disc is pre SP1 and I had to go thru all the updates before I proceeded installing additional software on the system. I just did a manual update check and the only proposed update for my system was the earlier mentioned one for the Nvidia Card and IE10; other then that I am up to date.

Edit:
rendertest-2010 does have compositing in it and it just renders fine in 33sec.

TheHappyFriar wrote on 4/3/2013, 6:10 AM

Vegas tested with 8/10 32-bit.

projects I've done on the system:
2012 Christmas Play (no media)
Sharkey and Clutch (no media)
2012 48 hour film_ex.zip (with media)
vasst 3d contest_ex.zip (with media)
mom_50th (with media)

CPU: Amd Phenon 9600, no OC, stock CPU cooler
MB: ASUS M3A AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
Bios version date: 7/1/08
GPU: DIAMOND Viper 3850PE3512O Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP, no OC stock cooler
GPU Driver: Catalyst 12.4
Hard Drive 1 : WD Caviar SE WD2500JBRTL 250GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 / ATA-6 3.5"
Hard Drive 2: WD WD Blue WD5000KSRTL 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
USB External: WD My Book 500gb
PSU: Antec True Power Trio TP3-650 650W ATX12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply with Three 12V Rails
RAM: ADATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model AD2U800B2G5-DRH
DVD Drive 1: SONY 18X DVD±R DVD Burner Black ATAPI/EIDE Model DRU180A
DVD Drive 2: HP DVD1260
Firewire Card: SYBA IEEE 1394 4 ports Lucent FireWire PCI Card With Ulead Software Model SD-LUC-4F
Monitor 1: CHIMEI CMV 946D-Silver Silver 19" 2ms Widescreen LCD Monitor
Monitor 2: Planar 1280x1024 4:3 LCD
Wireless Network: D-Link WDA-2320 PCI Rangebooster G Desktop Adapter

OS: Windows XP 32, updated
.Net 1.1, 2 SP2, 3 SP2, 3.5 SP 1, 4 Client Pack, Extended & Multi-Targeting Pack, all updates done.
Quicktime: Quicktime Lite 4.1.0

I'll post some projects (no media) later, but I use sequence TGA's, PNG's, JPG's. For stills I use various JPG's from digital cameras, PNG's. For video I use DV (not often any more), HDV, QuicktimePNG, various stuff handed to me in MP4. For audio I use WAV, MP3.

larry-peter wrote on 4/3/2013, 8:29 AM

Is this thread for "working systems" in general or meant to be directed to working systems on the latest version? My posted system #1 is generally stable for VP11, but not having installed 12 yet, I won't go into details that may not help others.

After reading what's been posted so far, I'm very interested in hearing of working systems whose editors utilize more complex workflows and compositing. A year ago I was one of those "Vegas never crashes for me" users, but I was truly using it mostly as an "offline" edit system (old school), although with a lot of mixed media and large projects. After attempting to move more of my simpler After Effects work into Vegas' workflow and use Vegas as a total finishing solution, the issues started manifesting. It still is quite useable and enjoyable for me to work with, but I do have to deal with occasional crashes now. I'm trying to wait for one more update before installing 12, and hope it works at least as well as 11 has.

_Lenny_ wrote on 4/3/2013, 9:50 AM

I'm editing mainly HDV at the moment, but my workflow will be changing to AVCHD from a Canon M52 camcorder and from a Sony A57 DSLT.

I also use this system for learning Adobe Creative Suite CS4 (AE, Premier, PhotoShop, Illustrator, In Design, Encore).

It's a modest editing system, but has been rock solid with Vegas Pro 10 and has only the occasional issue with Vegas Pro 12. Currently I use VP10 32-bit as one of the plugins I use is not 64bit compatible.

Specs, according to Speccy, are:

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
CPU: Intel Core i7 3770 @ 3.40GHz
RAM: 16.0 GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 800MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z77-DS3H (with firmware 10f (beta))
Graphics: Intel HD Graphics 4000
HDD #1: 500GB Western Digital WDC WD5000AZRX-00A8LB0 ATA Device (SATA)
HDD #2: 233GB FUJITSU MAXTOR STM3250310AS ATA Device (SATA)
HDD #3: 350GB USB (home assembled from Seagate HDD)
DVD: TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-222BB ATA Device
Audio: Realtek High Definition Audio ON-board
PCI Firewire card (Texas Instruments)
TP-Link USB Wi-Fi Adapter

Coolermaster 400W PSU - several years old, but working well.
Stock cooling fan.
Coolermaster Case.

I also have an nVidia graphics card, but as Vegas is slower to render with it, it has been removed from the PC for the time being.

videoITguy wrote on 4/3/2013, 12:55 PM

atom12, your concern about workflows that are more complex is exactly right-on. With all due respect, I have yet to see anyone anywhere in this forum post an experience of a "good-working" system that had anything but a simple workflow.

My own experience justifies my position on this matter, because while I push the envelope of complexity on my projects, I know I do everything possible to minimize impacts. For example to relieve congestion on timelines, I almost universally handle shorter length timelines and renders on individual machines, and then may rejoin them in an intermediate stage. In other words, I work very had in a complex environs to simplify stress on the hardware and workflows.

Hence my experience is successful, because I am working at the means to make it so.

TheHappyFriar wrote on 4/3/2013, 7:07 PM

I forgot to post the Vegas versions I've used on my system. I'll update my post, but it was Vegas 8 & 10. 32-bit versions obviously. I'll also update with projects.

VidMus wrote on 4/3/2013, 7:32 PM

@videoITguy,

I usually keep projects as simple as possible. I have noticed that when I push Vegas really hard that it is much more likely to crash or do something strange with GPU=on than with GPU=off.

A project with giant size *.jpg graphics will usually break GPU=on. Giant size *.bmp do not seem to bother Vegas.

My previous system was almost exactly like another user's system here. Mine would crash once in a while. His would crash most of the time.

So even with identical systems or even very close systems one may crash and the other may not.

There are so many variables including but not limited to:

What Windows updates have been applied?

What version .net are installed.

What version of Quicktime and are mov files being used?

What version of drivers?

What are the source videos?

Vegas issue?

And so on...

So there are a lot of reasons why there may or may not be a problem beyond what system a person has.

Still, the more information we have the better we will be able to help.

When I worked on TV's a person says, 'hey this tv does not work, fix it!'

I ask what is it doing. They say it does not work fix it already.

Not very helpful information. Some threads recently have been nothing more than that.