WOT: Zeitgeist the movie

Laurence wrote on 11/19/2007, 7:03 AM
For any other "conspiracy movie" genre fans out there, there is a new documentary out called "Zeitgeist".


If Michael Moore is too conservative for you, this movie is for you! As a warning, the subject matter is highly controversial and the style is sort confrontational. Being a fan of history, I disagree with whole sections of what it says.

None the less, it is the most interesting thing I've seen in quite some time, and there is no question in my mind that at least some of what it says is true, even if you need to pick out the gems from amongst the rubble.

What is also interesting is their efforts to distribute the movie as widely and as cheaply as possible. On their website, you can view the entire film (courtesy of Google video). You can also download a high quality XviD version (complete with album artwork) or order a pressed DVD at a price that looks close to cost.

It is available in a number of languages as well. They also have an interactive HTML document which shows where they got their information.

Anyway, I highly recommend it.


pmooney wrote on 11/19/2007, 8:25 AM
The Religious information is spot on accurate.

The 9/11 info is mostly accurate....sorry to say that this is so, but this is not the first time people have been deceived greatly by the US government.

The Tax information is completely wrong, unfortunately. If you want the real scoop on that info, head to Pete Hendrickson's website at Lost Horizons . Com

Happy Monday!
Laurence wrote on 11/19/2007, 8:47 AM
I agree that some parts are brilliant and some are completely off. I'll be checking out the Pete Hendrickson website. Thanks.
jrazz wrote on 11/19/2007, 8:49 AM
The reiligous information actually is not accurate at all. They cite sources, but when you look into those sources, they all come from one man's claims who has no sources. It is discussed in further detail here in 4 parts if anyone is interested. I will link to part 1.

The link.

j razz
jetdv wrote on 11/19/2007, 8:54 AM
The Religious information is spot on accurate.

No it's not.
Laurence wrote on 11/19/2007, 9:30 AM
As far as the common ground between religions, this has been discussed and written about many times by many great authors. My favorite author on this subject is Joseph Campbell, but C.S. Lewis does a wonderful job of describing this from a Christian perspective in the book "Mere Christianity".
fwtep wrote on 11/19/2007, 9:59 AM
Wow, what a complete piece of paranoid conspiracy nonsense! I'm astonished that people believe crap like this. I'm speechless.

Here's something to ask any 9/11 conspiracy believer: "What piece of evidence would it take to absolutely prove to you that 9/11 wasn't a U.S. government conspiracy?" I've asked that to some conspiracy nuts and not one of them has come up with anything. In other words, they believe what they want to believe and nothing, absolutely nothing will make them change their minds. Compare that to a non-conspiracy nut. I, for example, could name any number of things that could come to light and prove to me that it was "an inside job."
Jay Gladwell wrote on 11/19/2007, 10:08 AM

Nothing more nor less than religious bigotry.

Very fashionable these days!

earthrisers wrote on 11/19/2007, 11:10 AM
Good Lord! (...if you don't mind that expression)... what a huge load of misrepresentations of various religious traditions, even in the first segment of the movie!!! I realize that what they're trying to do is to set up a case for saying that the Christian religion is false (I haven't even got to that part of the movie yet, but I can feel it coming), but misinterpreting and misrepresenting other myths/stories/traditions/histories in order to set up that case is a pretty questionable strategy.

The film is obviously a statement of SOMEONE'S religious beliefs, if by "religion" we mean the set of stories, perspectives, guidelines, life-goals, system-of-meaning, etc. that one holds to be fundamentally true. (I don't think that definition exhausts the meaning of religion, but it'll suffice for purposes of this diatribe.)
I'll restrain myself from going any further... we are indeed "way off topic," here. My own PhD is in cross-cultural religious studies, so I could rant on and on about misrepresenting the beliefs and stories of peoples and cultures... but I'm grabbing my hand a-la Doctor Strangelove, and stopping myself...
jazzmaster wrote on 11/19/2007, 11:12 AM
As an expert on ancient religions (www.ancientwisdomcentral.us) I can tell you that the religion IS SPOT ON! Do a google on "Gerald Massey" - one of his quotes is featured on this video - and you will see that Christianity is just a re-working of the Egyptian religion.
When the Emperor Constantine first made Christianity the preferred religion of the government (as a tool of pacification), nothing has been the same since.
RogerB1 wrote on 11/19/2007, 11:19 AM
You need a much more level-headed understanding of the history of Christianity. Your "take" is just not true. And this is not the place to discuss it. Roger
Laurence wrote on 11/19/2007, 11:43 AM
Obviously this forum isn't the best place to argue points of this movie. Can anyone recommend a discussion forum where such conversations are appropriate. I'd love to participate in a discussion of this content somewhere where it was appropriate.
jrazz wrote on 11/19/2007, 12:09 PM
That's a good questionn Laurence. I don't know of one for just looking at the movie aspects and discussing the same, but the link I provided above is still open for discussion. I don't think Nick would mind the discussion if you or anyone else wanted to discuss the religous aspect of the movie.

j razz
Timpolo wrote on 11/19/2007, 1:26 PM
Christianity or Catholicism? BIG difference!!!
fwtep wrote on 11/19/2007, 3:59 PM
Laurence, http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=85264here's a forum about it.[/link]
ReneH wrote on 11/19/2007, 5:38 PM
"Wow, what a complete piece of paranoid conspiracy nonsense! I'm astonished that people believe crap like this. I'm speechless."

I guess you don't recall, or never heard off, the LSD experiments conducted by the CIA, for starters? When one mentions our government's complicity in assassination's of foreign leaders, the School of the Americas and their war on the indigenous peoples, the phrase "Where do I begin?" certainly comes up.

BTW, your statement above leaves one with a low opinion of your logical sense.
ReneH wrote on 11/19/2007, 5:45 PM
"Christianity or Catholicism? BIG difference!!!"

In the theological sense yes.

What both have done to humanity no. Both are responsible for countless massacres through the centuries, anybody remember the Crusades?

Anybody remember how the North American colonies got started? What they did to untold thousands of natives? Both religions got their hands dirty on that last one. Please don't debate this one with me, I'm a serious student of history and your rebuttal would leave me to think otherwise of you.
fadeout wrote on 11/19/2007, 7:17 PM
It's rough enough, given my Mickey Mouse understanding of Vegas, that I have to feel like 2 cents every time I click onto this forum. Now I find out that I am in the virtual presence of a serious student of history and an expert on ancient religions, not to mention an impressive assortment of knowledgeable conspiracy theorists.

Heck, I thought this was a working guys site. I didn't know there were college grads here.

Semper Fi,


MUTTLEY wrote on 11/19/2007, 7:26 PM

Someone made me watch this awhile ago and content aside, I just thought it was pretty poorly done and really friggin boring. IMHO they're giving it away for free cuz most people wouldn't pay for it. Just not my cup of tea I guess.

Beyond that I'd only suggest that people be careful who your insulting, regardless of how smart you think you are about religion or history and no matter how many degrees you have that person might be the one with the answer the next time your stuck in Vegas ... which is what this forum is for ... ahem.

- Ray

P.S. Funny how no ones complained about this thread not having a "Content Warning" yet, not complaining myself, merely an observation. =)
jrazz wrote on 11/19/2007, 7:52 PM
Both are responsible for countless massacres through the centuries, anybody remember the Crusades?

I believe you are wrong on this one ReneH. The religion is not responsible, it is the people who twisted the religion to suite their own purposes for their own sordid gain. That is where the responsibility lies and they are the ones who will have to give an account for their actions.

I will leave it at that. You are free to email me if you would like to discuss this further but I don't believe this forum to be the place.

j razz
fadeout wrote on 11/19/2007, 8:11 PM

To give you an idea of how uneducated I am, I can't tell if it's me that you have in the cross hairs or the college guys. In either case, you have spoken well.

fwtep wrote on 11/19/2007, 11:02 PM
ReneH wrote: guess you don't recall, or never heard off, the LSD experiments... etc.

Um, well, since that has nothing to do with the movie in question, what's your point?
deusx wrote on 11/20/2007, 5:56 AM
>>The religion is not responsible, it is the people who twisted the religion to suite their own purposes for their own sordid gain.<<

there is no difference between religion and politics. Both were created with sole purpose to twist and manipulate everything/everybody in order to control people and achieve/expand power.