Yamaha DM2000 and Sony Vegas... $2000 reward!

cchoy wrote on 10/8/2007, 1:22 PM
This is an oldie but a goodie post for me.

Still trying (after 2 long, sad, years) to get Vegas and the Yamaha DM2000 to work with each other. Hit a brick wall with WiseMix software. Offering another prize of $2000 to whomever can make these two work together (not in a lame cludgy way, which is what I was able to do.)

Anybody else find HUI integration something they need?

-C

Comments

Kennymusicman wrote on 10/8/2007, 2:09 PM
Ok, I don't have a DM2000, but I do have an 02R....

You go to options, and under external control & automation, you add a new generic one. You add in as many channels as you can communicate - since I only have 02R, I can play with 16 seperate MIDI channels for volume, and pan.

Next, simple test, assign a transport control [ such as play], say to fader 1 on the desk (the learn feature in Vegas will save you working out whether it's MSB, Vol, CC etc).
Now ok everything and get back to vegas. Go to options, and MAKE SURE EXTERNAL CONTROL is selected (and easy one to miss and will render all work useless without, hence caps...).

Move your fader, if it plays, you have succeeded in getting your device to play with Vegas. Then you just have to create your custom patch to your hearts content, or get me a DM2000, and I'll make one for you. :)

HTH

Ken
cchoy wrote on 10/8/2007, 3:09 PM
Generic Control doesn't really cut it, seeing as when you move the faders in vegas it doesn't move the faders on the board...
Kennymusicman wrote on 10/8/2007, 3:39 PM
Ah, you never specified control feedback from Vegas...

It's interesting. When playing with it, I find that Vegas will often lose "focus" of what the desk is doing, and I have to move a fader to max (CC 127) to retrigger the channel to listen. Incedentally, I have a MIDI device that shows all MIDI activity in, and out. It shows my MIDI going in, but does not show Vegas offering any activity for output. (I get fine activity with other Apps such as Cubase etc, so I know my hardware works correctly) Also, note under the generic control surface there is no MIDI output port, only an input.
There is also nothing suitable in the internal preferences in Vegas.

I will play with a few other ideas I have, and let you know.

Ken
Kennymusicman wrote on 10/8/2007, 3:49 PM
Played a little more.

If you choose mackie, emulate the surface, move stuff in Vegas, you do get MIDI output.

But the generic control does not output any MIDI.

Therefore, unless your DM2000 have the mackie emulation, which is only transport controls and function keys (judging by the list in Vegas) you aren't losing any tactile fader controls.

Therefore, your $2000 is safe as you can't get the MIDI feedback to your desk.

HTH

Ken
pwppch wrote on 10/9/2007, 8:33 AM
Therefore, unless your DM2000 have the mackie emulation, which is only transport controls and function keys (judging by the list in Vegas) you aren't losing any tactile fader controls.

Where did you gleen this information from?



Kennymusicman wrote on 10/9/2007, 10:31 AM
As I said - judging by the list of options within the control surface. I was not trying to reduce the value of the mackie - but rather pointing out the limitation of trying to use the mackie emulation for the DM2000. Matter of interpretation, not fact.

But more importantly - is there a way to get Vegas to respond and tramsit through the generic control option, as opposed to simply recieving only?

Cheers

Ken
x_gogoa wrote on 10/9/2007, 11:50 AM
i have full control over faders and pans in "trim" mode with tascam us-2400 (using mackie protocol on both sides). there is no control over f/p in automation mode. on the other side, in reaper, when i hit arming i get control over reaper's f/p in automation mode. it means that mcu protocol is functional. peter, you've said once that vegas doesn't work in that way. ok. in which way it could be full-full functional?

how to control track eq, dinamics or 5.1 pan is next post :))

regards,
gordan
cchoy wrote on 10/9/2007, 3:59 PM
Yes---

What would be nicest would be full fader controls, panning controls, F/X etc.

However, I still maintain my $2000 reward just for someone who can get me full HUI support! All I want is automated volume with faders that can read and write data. If I could bank the tracks (use a button to switch which tracks on the board are being represented) all the better.

Basically, HUI support, as the Yamaha DM2000 doesn't have and will never have MCE.
Kennymusicman wrote on 10/9/2007, 4:19 PM
Might as well spend the reward money on a HUI then. They've dropped through the floor on prices...

Sigh - I expect probably even a Behringer BCF2000 in emulation mode will work better than our Yamaha's.. :(

pwppch wrote on 10/9/2007, 8:17 PM
Still don't know what your point is regarding the MCU and its support for emulated devices. Regardless of your interpretations, we provide a number of secondary documents that would have helped you even with out having first hand experiance. I am just trying to avoid mis-information from being spread.

There is no mechanism to transmit msgs with the Generic Control option. We would have documented such a feature.

Peter
pwppch wrote on 10/9/2007, 8:21 PM
Fully functional for an real MCU. I have told you before that you need to assign a button on the Tascam to toggle the surface in and out of automation mode. This has to be done with other devices that support the MCU MIDI protocol as well.

This said, there is no "full functional" MCU behavior that is defined by anything other than the app that supports it. Control over automation is dependent on how the host implements it. We exposed it based on the real MCU surface where there is an Automation section that has a button labeld "On".

Devices that state they support the MCU protocol are typically not complete MCU devices.

So, again, the problem is to map a button that exists on a real MCU to something on your emulated device.

I would love to help you out, but as I told you in the past Tascam does not manufacture your device any longer and I can do nothing but guess - which I don't like to do - as to how you can solve this problem.

Peter
pwppch wrote on 10/9/2007, 8:28 PM
Actually he should spend the reward money on a Mackie Control Universal (or somemthign that emulates one) not HUI. The HUI and MCU use entirely different messaging and are not compatible. If they were, then cchoy could us the HUI mode of his Yamaha board.

Besides, the HUI has not been made for a VERY long time. Probably could find one on eBay or something.

"dropped through the floor on prices"

I could only find one used HUI on eBay. Current bid was $300. Not bad considering the HUI originally went for nearly $3K,

Found a couple of Baby HUIs for $200-$300.

A MCU is still around $1200.


Peter

Kennymusicman wrote on 10/10/2007, 3:16 AM
Oops - my bad, I typed HUI instead of MCU - but my point about buying the unit was valid.

So I take it you do not forsee a fully duplex generic option then?

Cheers

Ken
pwppch wrote on 10/10/2007, 1:09 PM
Ok, but where have you seen them "dropping through the floor" in pricing?

Peter
cchoy wrote on 10/10/2007, 1:40 PM
Unfortunately my studio has a Yamaha DM2000. Considering we spent $20,000 on the thing, I don't think that we'll be replacing it anytime soon. Also, a MCU doesn't function as an actual board like the Yamaha does.

So I find it extremely frustrating to have people tell me to buy a BCF. If I want faders in my editing room then I can use a BCF. But I want faders in my mix room where there isn't physical room for two boards, and it would seem especially silly to have a control surface AND the yamaha DM2000, especially since the DM2000 IS a control surface.

C'mon guys. I WANT to use Vegas Pro in a Pro environment. But if it only supports consumer hardware (like the BCF) how are we ever going to get anywhere? Any awesome programmers out there? $2000 reward!
MarkWWWW wrote on 11/6/2007, 5:40 AM
Just in case you haven't already seen it, I thought I'd point you towards this site which I have just become aware of.

It claims to be another bit of software which will allow non-MCU hardware controllers to emulate the MCU. (It has the advantage over WiseMix of being free.)

I've not tested it (I have no need of it since my BCF2000 already emulates a MCU well enough for Vegas) so I can't say whether it would be usable with your DM2000, but I thought you might like to know about it if you didn't already.

Mark
Kennymusicman wrote on 11/7/2007, 2:44 AM
and this one

http://rekkerd.org/genmce/


cchoy wrote on 11/9/2007, 6:52 AM
Talked to the guy (Flip Otto) who makes it. Really nice and smart guy. Only one-way control though (similar to generic control).

He's giving me some suggestions to try out. Will keep people posted.

FWI- both those links you guys posted go to the same place :)

-C