General Performance Issues with VEGAS Pro 15 (216)

Fiola schrieb am 12.11.2017 um 03:05 Uhr

Hi,

I am trying to share my experience from last few weeks, because I am so frustraded right now. For 10 years, I am using VEGAS for production and editing. In general, I have no problems with software - I also understand that some "things" cannot ever be fixed. But my frustration is persistent for more than month now because brand new problem.

Just to be clear, I am using Pro 15 Build 216 on brand new computer: Intel Core i9-SkylakeX, 32 GB DDR4, 1 TB NVMe M.2 SSD, NVIDIA GTX 1080Ti, Windows 10 64bit Professional. Basically, I am using latest drivers available for motherboard, chipset, GPU, etc.

The Vegas is working fine for few minutes after boot of mentioned system. But unfortunately, after some minutes of editing, when I import a lot of videos (it doesnt matter what type of format it is: H264, MOV, JPEG's etc), performance is hitting hard bottom. I mean waiting for 2 seconds after making "cut", when trying to open the cropper edit or any other sub-application window. And that's for classic 1080p footage, imagine 4K NVENC videos captured using NVIDIA shadowplay - that's horrible to even get videos on timeline - I have editing slideshow on timeline :).

In Task Manager, I can see that Vegas is using on first core (Core 0) the 100% of available compute power once I get at least 2 videos on timeline. When I kill Vegas.exe, this 100% usage drops to normal percentage (10-15% on average). But that's seems strange. It looks like VEGAS is trying to process something on background? But I am not aware of any new function which can cause that... I didn't also find any settings in Options which could help with that.

I think the horrible playback on timeline (i have GPU acceleration active) is caused also because of some bug in decoding NVENC videos, MOV's or H264 in current version of Vegas.

Aren't here anyone with similar problems like I have?

Thanks!

Kommentare

NickHope schrieb am 12.11.2017 um 03:13 Uhr

Firstly try disabling so4compoundplug if you didn't already. That might help playback with some types of AVC file.

But I've read a lot of reports of sluggishness, lag etc.. There was some discussion starting here.

karma17 schrieb am 12.11.2017 um 08:39 Uhr

I haven't noticed any sluggishness, just major audio issues until the so4 was disabled.

If you load up VP14, do you notice the same thing?

For now, I have VP15 running on my new machine, and 14 on my old. Right now, I continue to use 14 because I'm comfortable with what it can do, and slowly, on a project by project basis, I will try out projects on 15 to see how it goes. I don't want to jump ship on 14 until I'm confident with 15. For me, it seems it might have been released a little prematurely, especially with this whole disabling So4 glitch, which is actually more than a glitch.

bitman schrieb am 12.11.2017 um 13:18 Uhr

@Fiola I know it is a long shot, but maybe you can try to disable Intels' hyper-threading in bios just as an experiment. There is a bug in skylake and kaby lake (including the derived i9). There are fixes possible (google is your friend), but an easy way to fix this is to disable hyper-treading.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/107293-serious-intel-skylake-kaby-lake-microcode-bug-unearthed/

as a side note I am building a new PC as well, it has some of the components you have, except the processor, I opted for coffee lake 8700K. Rest of the system will be 64 GB DDR4, 2 TB NVMe M.2 SSD, NVIDIA GTX 1080Ti, I am still waiting for memory to come in.

 

Current system: VP 18 (build 284), VP 17 (build 452), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15, 16 Suite), Vegasaur, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2020, Davinci Resolve Studio 16,...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 2004
  • CPU: i9900K stepping R0 (since October 2019), previously, der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive (games & APPS): Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro

  • Current Video source work drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2T 970 EVO plus

  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB

  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7, BIOS F14
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2,
  • Misc: Logitech G915 (replaced G910), Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

Fiola schrieb am 12.11.2017 um 15:22 Uhr

Firstly try disabling so4compoundplug if you didn't already. That might help playback with some types of AVC file.

But I've read a lot of reports of sluggishness, lag etc.. There was some discussion starting here.

Thank you Nick, I will do try that at first.

On the similar note, I am not sure about hyper-threading bug. This could be, but probably will not be attached to Vegas performance. It's similar in the post Nick shared, the UI responsivness is slower and slower each step you perform in the project. When you open brand new project, after boot, you get fast / great performance, when you open project which have large amount of files, it gets worse and worse.

VEGAS 14 is not behaving like that, but I already using VEGAS 15 projects, so I can't use 14 for rest of my actual work now. At the same time I am aware, that this thing can't be solved right away, but it's something MAGIX should be aware of and maybe dig into it. Because I really love changes in VEGAS 15 and in general, I have no problems than performance wise and stability wise (crashing i.e.).

Thank you for brainstorming this. I will try disable so4compoundplug and blindly try to disable hyper-threading, which is solution similar to screaming something like "oh my god oh god oh god shit", but thank you guys! :D ...

joseph-w schrieb am 13.11.2017 um 17:50 Uhr

I've done all the troubleshooting suggestions (incl turning off Hyperthreading/C states/etc) and still have major performance problems w/ Vegas 15 the longer I use it. To me it feels like the new GUI isn't optimized properly (I hate it to begin w/ but it's constantly redrawing it's ugly self). The other thought I had was maybe the issue has to do w/ the undo cache having a memory leak as the issue does seem to get progressively worse but a restart of the software will give you a few minutes of work time.

 

Said it before but if only V14 had the GPU rendering that V15 has I'd go back. The new gui/icons/etc are ugly and have taken a toll on the performance. Luckily i haven't had to do a large project recently.

 

I love the idea of so4compoundplug as it's much more accurate as far as a/v sync is concerne In recent past versions of Vegas if I opened certain MP4s (youtube clips for example), selected a region, rendered to MP4, and then opened that render in a track under the original the audio/video would be off between 20-60ms. Perhaps the inconsistent offset was due to sector boundries w/ AAC or interpreted VFR but so4compoundplug is a step in the right direction towards resolving that. So4 also opens DV media (old camcorder footage for ex) properly for me. I haven't had any gamebreaking bugs w/ it but yes I have worked extensively w/ it disabled and still have major performance issues.

 

Anxiously awaiting the next update.

phil-d schrieb am 18.11.2017 um 09:48 Uhr

Hi

The hyper-threading bug is rarely triggered in the wild, and it would not cause a persistent slow down, it would cause a hard crash, most likely a blue screen. In addition this bug was fixed starting in April 2017 so if you have the latest bios update dated after then it's most likely fixed anyway, even before anyone was aware of it!

As for GPU Acceleration, this is buggy as anything. My first project (which was just a render with a few minor tweaks) came across a bug with GPU Acceleration and artefacts in the rendered output, this was identified to be a problem with a particular FX, I changed that to an alternative one then got issues again. In both cases turning of GPU Acceleration fixed the problem. Try turning of GPU Acceleration and see if you slow issues disappear.

I know, you wonder why you bothered upgrading!

Regards

Phil

neblackshirts schrieb am 30.11.2017 um 19:51 Uhr

 

Fiola - have you tried disabling so4compoundplug.dll and if so, did it help performance at all? I am having the EXACT issues you are with VP15. VP15 starts ok but then performance drops significantly after a couple of minutes of doing ANYTHING! My VP15 actually takes twice as long to just import footage compared to VP14. I'm also running very new tech (i7-5930K 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor, 32GB DDR4-2666 RAM, R9 390 8GB GPU, M.2 SSD, etc.) I've permanently switched back to VP14 until there is a documented fix. So frustrating as just like you, I've been using Vegas since the Sonic Foundry days.

Pashi schrieb am 16.01.2018 um 19:56 Uhr

The same issue with VP15 & Sony A7S2 footage. After few minutes Event FX / Pan-Crop windows starts opening for 5-10 seconds every time. It's annoying!

joseph-w schrieb am 16.01.2018 um 21:25 Uhr

This is a screencapture video I'd made showing the UI slowdown (compared to V14 doing the exact same procedure).

 

I'd posted this video in another thread (Which received only from someone w/ the same problem saying Magix was aware/working on it). It's been a while since the last update so hopefully the next version will have a fix implemented. I've gone back to V14 to work and sometimes render from V15 since it's incredibly fast in that regard.

.

matthias-krutz schrieb am 16.01.2018 um 22:43 Uhr

I also hope that it will be fixed with the next update.
For me, I've found that it helps if I close the video preview window and then open a saved window layout again and then avoid moving windows. I was able to continue working with this workaround.

Desktop: Ryzen R7 2700, RAM 2 x Ballistix DIMM 16 GB DDR4-2666, X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming, Radeon R9 380 4GB, Win10

Laptop: T420, W7 SP1, i5-2520M 4GB, SSD, HD Graphics 3000

VEGAS Pro 14-17, Movie Studio 12 Platinum, Vegasaur, HitfilmPro

jason19 schrieb am 17.01.2018 um 07:58 Uhr

btw, for me I had a lot of lag when clicking around the timeline (~5 second hang per jump in timeline so it was pretty painful). I'm using build 261 with so4compoundplug disabled.

I realized it was due to my .m4a audio files that were created from my Elgato Game Capture software. I converted them to .wav files with a free converter and used them instead, and now its nice and snappy.

Pashi schrieb am 17.01.2018 um 09:56 Uhr

Are there somebody suffering from problems with UNDOs? It's a really REALLY annoying problem for me with all versions of VEGAS. Maybe this is because of Waves VSTfx or OFX plugins but in 25% cases it takes 20-30 seconds to make UNDO and in 25% cases VEGAS crashes. I clearing undo buffer frequently but it doesn't help.

Norbert schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 16:05 Uhr

I have the same problem.The playback lags at the beginning of every new video event on the timeline regardless of having M.2 SSD. I work with X AVC S and X AVC L files. My system: Ryzen 1700X, 16 GB RAM, 1080 Ti, 1 TB Samsung m.2 SSD.

I think with this PC I should get smooth playback.

MrBender schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 17:14 Uhr

Same issue here. Beginning of every new event playpack rate drops. Also with crossfades.

Pashi schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 17:31 Uhr

Same issue here. Beginning of every new event playpack rate drops. Also with crossfades.

AFAIK, XAVC S has an interframe compression. So if you cut event the decoder have to decode you footage starting from nearest keyframe. That's why ussually it is so jerky. Davini Resolve also suffering it even with GTX1080Ti onboard. Use Proxy or convert your footage to intermediate format like ProRes or Cineform. My Sony A7S2 shoots in XAVC-S and this jerkyness annoying for me too)))

OldSmoke schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 17:35 Uhr

AFAIK, XAVC S has an intraframe compression.

XAVC-I does work better for the same reason and for 4K multicam projects I do a conversion in Catalyst Browse to make it smoother.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Fiola schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 17:39 Uhr

Yes. Hi guys, sorry for keeping you waiting. But today I have discovered there is new version of VEGAS 15 - v261. So I tried it and it's horrible. NVENC is not working properly again. I can't have smooth playback of videos and even with disabling so4compoundplug, this is the really horrible experience. I really thought MAGIX will do about it something, but instead of that, they just announced the VEGAS 365 - I can't even pay myself back the VEGAS 15 itself because slow process ...

They should firstly fix all the bugs ASAP, then move to the next version. Omg.

Pashi schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 17:48 Uhr

Yes. Hi guys, sorry for keeping you waiting. But today I have discovered there is new version of VEGAS 15 - v261. So I tried it and it's horrible. NVENC is not working properly again. I can't have smooth playback of videos and even with disabling so4compoundplug, this is the really horrible experience. I really thought MAGIX will do about it something, but instead of that, they just announced the VEGAS 365 - I can't even pay myself back the VEGAS 15 itself because slow process ...

They should firstly fix all the bugs ASAP, then move to the next version. Omg.

Agreed with you. I like new features of VP15 but it is crazy buggy. I started new very big project in VP15 and it's a pain to finish it and have no chance to open it in VP14.

OldSmoke schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 18:06 Uhr

Yes. Hi guys, sorry for keeping you waiting. But today I have discovered there is new version of VEGAS 15 - v261. So I tried it and it's horrible. NVENC is not working properly again. I can't have smooth playback of videos and even with disabling so4compoundplug, this is the really horrible experience. I really thought MAGIX will do about it something, but instead of that, they just announced the VEGAS 365 - I can't even pay myself back the VEGAS 15 itself because slow process ...

They should firstly fix all the bugs ASAP, then move to the next version. Omg.

Are you working in a 32bit or 8bit project? Just for testing, have tried you converting your source files to a Vegas friendly format, like XAVC-I?

Zuletzt geändert von OldSmoke am 23.01.2018, 00:24, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Fiola schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 18:27 Uhr

I only works in 8bit projects for now.

Does XAVC-I supports alpha channel?

OldSmoke schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 19:27 Uhr

I only works in 8bit projects for now.

Does XAVC-I supports alpha channel

Not sure but neither does XAVC-S or XAVC-L.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Norbert schrieb am 22.01.2018 um 20:33 Uhr

Even X AVC I lags at cuts between events. I have smooth playback only with the proxies rendered by Vegas. The sad thing is that Vegas doesn't use the GPU while rendering proxies...

Fiola schrieb am 23.01.2018 um 00:09 Uhr

Even X AVC I lags at cuts between events. I have smooth playback only with the proxies rendered by Vegas. The sad thing is that Vegas doesn't use the GPU while rendering proxies...


Sad thing is, that VEGAS doesn't use the GPU while rendering output to the file even when it's specified by their default template (MAGIX NVENC). I was rendering 90 second long video 2 hours at 4K60FPS on my setup, which should render this segment like... approx. really at 3 minutes MAX ... But no. VEGAS can't do it. Even Premiere does this better. Regarding 4K editing, I am probably switching finally off VEGAS :/ ...

 

Fiola schrieb am 31.01.2018 um 21:06 Uhr

So... I was wondering, if some of you has the similar experience to me. I am now completing several projects with 4K60fps presets, few video & audio tracks, no effects in the fx. Just pure footage.

With proxy files encoded the editing seems to be better - unfortunately the VEGAS keeps crashing all the time during editing. So basically proxy is useless for me, same as the VEGAS 15 for 4K editing.

What I am editing (on my rig mentioned in the first post) is pretty much basic video files which are encoded by Panasonic GH5:

Advanced Video Codec
Format profile              : High@L5.2
Format settings, CABAC      : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames  : 2 frames
Codec ID                    : avc1
Codec ID/Info               : Advanced Video Coding
Bit rate mode               : Variable
Bit rate                    : 141 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate    : 158 Mb/s
Width                       : 3 840 pixels
Height                      : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio        : 16:9
Frame rate mode             : Constant
Frame rate                  : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS

I understand that this is not All-Intra, so it's much performance heavy. What I DONT understand is, that when I import these files into Adobe Premiere, it works like a charm. I can even output the timeline to the second monitor in full resolution and it just works! IT JUST WORKS. 4K editing without any stalling, flawless, instant preview, even with some effects on ...

The rendering alone takes pretty much real-time. So 10 minutes video is rendered in 11 minutes or so. This can't be said about the Vegas. Same footage is Vegas rendering even using NVENC painful 3 hours. That's pretty much useless.

I am so mad on myself that I just find Premiere so unbearable with its timeline workflow. What I am editing in Vegas like 10 minutes, in Premiere takes hours to complete.

Why every editing software has to be half-baked, like ... please, TAKE WORKFLOW from VEGAS and put it into Premiere rendering pipeline with DaVinci Resolve color-grading, and make the money rain...

Why is here Vegas 365 and already silently announced Vegas 16 if there isnt properly finished software in the first place? How long we need to wait to get performance issues on the high-end rigs resolved? I bought Vegas 15 in a good faith, that Magix is knowing what to do... Now I am not really convinced.

Thank you for any feedback.