1080P/60 in a 1280x72060P timeline in Vegas 7

john_dennis wrote on 7/18/2014, 1:18 AM

I don't have the camera, video from the camera or Vegas Pro 7, but I rendered this video from a 60p source using the Sony AVC/MVC AVCHD render template customized for 59.94p.

Try this and see if there is any hope at all. My oldest Vegas Pro installation, Vegas 9 choked on it. Vegas Pro 10, 11 and 12 liked it just fine.

Mediainfo:

Complete name : C:\Users\John\Desktop\Random Red Couch.m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 47.0 MiB
Duration : 30s 280ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 13.0 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 18.0 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 30s 30ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 12.3 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 26.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.099
Stream size : 44.0 MiB (94%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : 129
Duration : 30s 16ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -16ms
Stream size : 704 KiB (1%)

John_Cline wrote on 7/18/2014, 1:46 AM

YouTube only accepts 30p in 1280x720, so you can mix 1080-60p clips with 720-30p clips in a 720-30p project footage pretty seamlessly. The trick is to get into the 1080-60p clip's properties and change the "Undersample rate" to "0.5" to make it 30p, Vegas will just skip every other frame. Also make sure the "Full-resolution rendering quality" in your project properties is set to "Best" so Vegas will apply bicubic interpolation when resizing the 1080 clips down to 720.

EDIT: I somehow missed that you are trying to do this in Vegas 7.0d, all bets are off. 7.0d can't deal with AVCHD footage. You may be able to download the free "GoPro Studio" software and convert the AVCHD footage to Cineform and use the Cineform files into Vegas 7.0d. I have the paid "GoPro Studio Premium" software and it will convert AVCHD files, however, I'm not certain whether the free version can load AVCHD files. Perhaps someone with the free version can answer this.

http://gopro.com/software-app/gopro-studio-edit-software

kplo wrote on 7/18/2014, 12:00 PM

Thanks to you both. I'll try the Go Pro software (think I downloaded it a while back).
I see an HDV 720P30 and HD1080i option in project properties for V7, so perhaps the GoPro/Cineform workaround will do it.

PS: What! You mean I can't edit the latest, most complex codecs on my 11 year old Pentium 4 with XP SP3 and a gig and a half of ram????? I'm shocked. Shocked I say!
:)

Thanks again,
Ken

fldave wrote on 7/18/2014, 5:32 PM

Go Pro should work, but I think Cineform was native to 7d. I did a concert performance in 7d, 1080/60i three cams. The trouble is, there was no 1080/60P template so I don't think it supported anything greater than that (that may have been a Cineform limitation, if I remember right). You may need to convert to 1080/60p to 60i.

John_Cline wrote on 7/18/2014, 5:46 PM

You're not locked into just the pre-defined templates. You can customize a template for 60p, just change the 1080-60i template to progressive and change the frame rate to 59.94. Save it. Done.

You may have to check the properties of the 60p Cineform clips to make sure Vegas has recognized them as progressive, if not, it's a simple matter of changing the setting to progressive.

fldave wrote on 7/18/2014, 5:50 PM

I remember the issue, the version of Cineform in 7 only was HDV, full 1080 wasn't supported? The new GoPro should take care of that.

BruceUSA wrote on 7/18/2014, 6:50 PM

"You mean I can't edit the latest, most complex codecs on my 11 year old Pentium 4 with XP SP3 and a gig and a half of ram????? I'm shocked. Shocked I say!
:)

You gonna have a lot of trouble editing AVCHD with your current PC . Way out dated. Your system will not have enough juice to do editing avchd . To get decent performance you need at least an old i7 920 processor with 8gb of ram to cut avchd footage. You don't believe me. before you edit any footage. Just try to drop a 5 minute footage onto the Vegas timeline and try to render in HD. I bet you, it will freeze or will take 10+ hrs to complete 5 minute video.

Chienworks wrote on 7/18/2014, 9:42 PM

Well, i'm editing 1080 AVCHD in Vegas 9 on my 7+ year old 3GHz Q6600 with 2GB RAM. It works. It's a tad slow and preview is often jumpy, but i do successfully edit and render. My hardware is far older and slower than an i7.

Would i edit on a much faster system if i could? Of course i would! I just don't happen to have one lying around.

fldave wrote on 7/18/2014, 9:50 PM

"old i7 920 processor with 8gb of ram"

??

I'm running an i5 quad with 16 and everything I throw at it plays at full frame rate. Add a couple of effects, it slows a bit.

BruceUSA wrote on 7/18/2014, 9:55 PM

Well, your 7 yrs old Q6600 is still better than a 11 yrs old system with 1 1/2 gb of ram. You know, he is going to do a multicam edit. He shoot one cam for the audio and the 2nd shooter are shooting 2 cameras. If he can get thru the hard cuts and add any FX to that, this will definately put his system to a halt.

PS. to have a enjoyable editing experience, minimun a i7 920 is good start. Anything less, would not be fun to edit. A i7 920 by today standard is slow, really.

kplo wrote on 7/18/2014, 11:30 PM

Well, I may be forced into a new MB/processor & ram sooner than I thought.
Just cloned a failing system drive to a new HD and took a good look at the old Soyo motherboard. At least 2 leaking capacitors (the MB is vertically mounted, so they are leaking on each other)...not a good sign. Guess a new Z87 or Z97 setup is in my immediate future.
I'm sure there must be some short (10-20sec) AVCHD clips out there I can download and try with GoPro Studio to see if it actually works.
Ken

john_dennis wrote on 7/19/2014, 1:05 PM

I encourage you to get a newer computer every 10 years or so. I change mine about every four years or so when I change my socks.

You might even go up a couple notches with Vegas Pro, too. Who knows, you may decide to shoot with a 4K camera that uses XAVC.

OldSmoke wrote on 7/19/2014, 1:59 PM

Try one of these files https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0Bz4okF1D_ux5dVNrTm5SdEVGWU0&usp=docslist_api

kplo wrote on 7/20/2014, 11:04 PM

I downloaded and installed Go Pro Studio. It wouldn't load one of the mp4 files I tried from the page Old Smoke referenced. Same clip plays fine in VLC.
Any idea what I might be doing wrong?
Thanks,
Ken

John_Cline wrote on 7/21/2014, 2:48 AM

I downloaded OldSmoke's MP4 and M2TS files and tried to load them into GoPro Studio Premium, the M2TS files loaded and converted fine, it wouldn't even load the MP4 files. Chances are that the Sony AVCHD camera records M2TS files.

fldave wrote on 7/21/2014, 7:29 AM

Can you load any mp4 files into your V7?

kplo wrote on 7/21/2014, 11:34 AM

I read the cautionary notes on the GoPro site. They say that if a file has been modified outside the camera, it may not load. I shot a brief clip with an old Canon SX10 (SD 640x480.mov) , and it loaded and converted. File size was almost double as expected, but it did work. Hopefully, the Sony files will too.
I'll give those M2Ts files a try.

Thanks,
Ken

OldSmoke wrote on 7/21/2014, 11:52 AM

@kplo

The sample files are straight from the camera, a Canon Vixia HF G30 which is equal to the latest XA20/25. These cameras shoot 1080 60p in AVCHD and MP4 which is why I uploaded both "flavors".

kplo wrote on 7/21/2014, 11:52 AM

Dave,
No, my current version doesn't support them.

John,
The only import choices I see in GoPro studio are: MP4, MOV and JPEG. It won't even see those .mts files. Tried renaming the file to .m2t...no luck.
Ken

kplo wrote on 7/21/2014, 12:35 PM

Old Smoke,
I converted the .mts file to an mp4 with VLC and loaded that file into GoPro Studio, which then converted it to the Cineform .avi.
Long way 'round and about 25 times the file size, but it did work. At least that's another option.

Thanks,
Ken

OldSmoke wrote on 7/21/2014, 12:47 PM

Well, there is always the option to upgrade Vegas. These files play fine on my system.

kplo wrote on 7/21/2014, 11:20 PM

Old Smoke,
I hear ya. As soon as my hardware is upgraded, I plan to do just that...at least to V12.
Ken