This is referring to Roger Evans system, I believe. Normally the cadence of scan frames works out smoothly regardless of what the .avi container file props might say. So if you are looking at playback in media player as the test. Does the default fps look acceptable? If you want to modify it ever so slightly - you can use VegasPro with built-in features or plug-ins to tweak to your preference. Normally you do not want to do that however.

Yes, that was one of Roger's machines. Proprietary software is used to stitch the individual frames together at the originally shot frame rate and then correct it to 29.97. If you look at the video frame by frame you will see an interpolated frame from time to time. Normally this system produces a very good transfer and Vegas should have no problems with the file.

The fact that it was done in Texas does make one think of Roger Evans, the founder of MovieStuff. He makes movie transfer systems for small gauge film. I have one of his very first beta transfer systems, and have kept in touch with him over the years. He has very quietly become a fabulously successful businessman.

However, Roger no longer provides transfer services, so the transfer was probably NOT done by him or his company. Therefore, you cannot be sure what sort of video you have unless you do some tests. I can do these for you, and can tell you exactly what you need to do if you can post about five seconds of video. Pick something with a lot of motion. If the file is an AVI, you may be able to cut it in Vegas without recompressing, depending on the codec used. If you are going to upload a clip for me to look at, this is important, because recompression will screw up what I need to look at.

The reason for needing to look carefully at the video before you proceed is that not all movie transfer systems are "frame accurate." Simply put, "frame accurate" means that one frame of film is transferred to one frame of video. If the original film ran at 18 fps (typical for Super 8 film) or 16 fps, then if the video is set to play at 18 or 16 fps, it will look exactly like the original film. Even if the machine was produced by Roger Evans, not all of his early systems were frame accurate, and some transferred film just by pointing the camera at the projector and filming the output.

However, most TV standards are (nominally) 25 fps or 30 fps. This is true for both high def as well as the older SD standards. To get 24 fps (sound film) or 12, 15, 16, or 18 fps silent film to play correctly on TVs that only accept one of these two frame rates, additional frames must be added. Since you have video that is 30 fps (29.97), someone has already added these frames OR (and this is the reason we need to look carefully at your video) the transfer might NOT have been done with a "frame accurate" transfer system.

If the transfer was done with a frame accurate system, and then frames have been added, then you can remove these extra frames prior to editing by using "inverse telecine" software. You want to do this because the final encoding will have far fewer artifacts, and the edits, transitions, and fX will be far cleaner if done without these duplicate frames.

If the transfer was NOT frame accurate, then this means that each frame of video may contain a blend of adjacent film frames. This, unfortunately, is a mess, and editing this will not produce ideal results. For instance, if you want to do slow motion, you will end up with extremely fuzzy results. The final encoding will look pretty bad.

So, if you can upload a clip, I'll take a look and advise what you need to do.

I used the .avi HD 1080 60i (Sony YUV codec, Vegas 11) default to render the clip. Is there Some other settings I should use?
Can you tell me how to upload the video for you?
Thanks

On the Vegas timeline I bumped the clip one frame at a time and could preview the duplicate frames. I counted roughly 18 unique frames out of 30. All the frames have the same quality. Doesn't this mean it was "frame accurate"?

You can upload the video sample to a free online storage site like Dropbox. Then post the link to the file here following directions in Sticky # 3 New Markup for Forum Posts at the beginning of this forum.

'Lotta guys in Texas (who know nothing about pulldown).

Here's a SD clip:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ia7l5023v1n7vtz/SD%20clip.avi?dl=0

The good news is your native frame rate can be easily extracted from your clip by overlooking the duped frames.

A Vegas script, Handbrake (CLI, not GUI), and Avisynth are likely candidates for doing so successfully.

That is a very nice film transfer. The people who did it knew what they were doing.

Your film has been timed to 18 fps, and then two out of every three frames were duplicated. This is a very crude type of pulldown: the better way of adding duplicates is to do it by duplicating fields rather than frames. No big deal, but it will make the playback a little more "juddery."

The duplicate fields can be removed so that you get the correct 18 fps progressive film for editing. I used the following AVISynth script which I've used many times before:

# Script to IVTC an 8mm movie.

# Note: must serve into VD and then direct stream serve into MC

# For this script, serve out of Vegas using YUYV



loadPlugin("c:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\TIVTC.dll")



AVISource("e:\fs.avi").killaudio()



AssumeBFF()

tfm(display=false)

tdecimate(display=false,mode=0,cycleR=2,cycle=5) #18 fps  # 4:4:2 field count



AssumeFPS(18)

I went ahead and performed this operation and then put the clip back onto the Vegas timeline. In Vegas, I set the project properties to NTSC DV, but then went to the project properties and typed "18" in the "Frame Rate" box, and set "Field Order" to Progressive. Then, because I used the MainConcept DV codec to encode the result because, unlike the Sony DV codec which only permits NTSC and PAL frame rates, this one permits any frame rate, I then went to the event on the timeline, right-clicked and selected "Properties." In this dialog I set the field order to progressive because the DV codec always sets the field order flag to interlaced. Both your original footage, as well as my 18 fps version, are both progressive and it is important that you do this in order to get Vegas to treat the video correctly.

While in Vegas, I corrected the gamma and color, using a monitor and the Vegas videoscopes.

Finally, just for grins, I ran the resulting 18 fps clip through a restoration stage which removes most of the dirt, slightly reduces the grain, and applies just a hint of sharpening. Here is the result:

Restored, Color Corrected, 18 fps Progressive Version

I was just closing down all the windows I opened to do that little restoration project, and I played my restored version one more time. I think I boosted the contrast just a little too much which loses about 0.05% of the highlights, but more importantly gives it a slightly artificial look. My bad. As is always true with restoration, "less is more."

That really looks good... Better than the clip IMO ....

That really looks good... Better than the clip IMO ....Thanks! If it didn't, it means I just wasted the last ten years of my life ...

When I saw your restored version I said "Oh my god..." at least a couple times.
That is amazing. Really.
Thank you so much for taking the time.

I'm sure I'll be back here soon with many questions...

I'm interested in learning how to run that script. I've never worked with them before and so can you tell me how to get started?
First it looks Like I need the TIVTC.dll...

Outstanding.
JJK

I'm interested in learning how to run that script. I've never worked with them before and so can you tell me how to get started?Describing how to use AVISynth is way too much to cover in a forum post. Doom9.org is where AVISynth is discussed. Here are the two, very long threads, which cover its use for restoring 8mm/Super 8 film transfers:

The power of Avisynth: restoring old 8mm films

and



The short version of usage is this:

1. You download and install AVISynth. It provides a way to feed a video file into a series of "filters" (Vegas calls them fX).

2. Those filters are created via a simple text file that you create in Notepad which defines which filters to use, and what settings to use. The script I posted above is an example.

3. AVISynth installs a setting in Windows that lets some video programs open this text file as if it were a video file. That concept isn't immediately obvious, but that is what happens. What actually gets opened is the video file that results from the application of all the things you specify in the text file.

4. To actually make it work without having to install lots of other software, I install Degubmode's "Frameserver," and I serve directly out of Vegas using this frameserver. Note in my example above that the script is opening a video file called "fs.avi". That is the video being served from Vegas. I had already applied color and gamma correction in Vegas before I served the video from Vegas, so the script was getting video that had that blue haze removed.

5. I then open the video in a video program that can read AVISynth ".avs" text files as if they were video. Unfortunately, Vegas isn't one of them. You can get Vegas to read them using an old hack program called VFAVIConv, but using that is beyond what I can get into here. Most people open the video file in VirtualDub, another totally free program (all of these programs are free). It will let you view the results, and make adjustments.

6. You then save the file using a codec that is available in VirtualDub. It is best to use a high quality editing codec, like Cineform, when saving from VirtualDub.

7. You then take the resulting file, put it back into a new (or modified) project in Vegas, add your chapter stops and do whatever other editing you want to do, and then render the final files.

If you search my user name and AVISynth in this forum, you will find lots of other posts. If you add the word "film," that will help restrict the search results to just those where I talk about film restoration.