32 bit float audio by Panasonic GH7/XLR2 device is not available

johnny-s wrote on 8/14/2024, 10:40 AM

I meant VP22 b93

johnny-s wrote on 8/15/2024, 6:59 PM

I do have a workaround. The audio in the FHD proxy files is read ok by VP and so I can use it.

Not the high audio data rate in the non proxy files but better than transcoding the 32 bit float audio to make available which is another workaround.

RogerS wrote on 8/15/2024, 8:46 PM

Can you make a version available for download via a service like Google Drive? Others could confirm the issue exists on multiple systems. PCM, even 32-bit should load.

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 5:22 AM

Yes, both are original SOOC. The 32 bit float file plays outside of VP as you found.

This in camera file is obtained via the attached Panasonic XLR2 device, mounted in GH7 hot shoe

I used Xlr2 devices input 3 which is fed from Rode Videomike Pro+ mounted upon Xlr2 device.

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 5:32 AM

I meant to say that the 32 bit float file plays OK in camera as well as in PC players.

VP may need to recognise this file maybe in a future update?

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 5:48 AM

"You'd better adjust that device to yield compatible sound stream (for VEGAS)."

That's not an option.

The Rode Mile input I used in the XLR2 is via input 3, 3.5mm mic input. There appears to be a edit comment timeout so I cannot add this edit to previous comment at 11:22 AM.

Here's a link to a review of the GH7 and mentions of XLR2 at ~ 55m - 56m. He does say that not all NLE's currently support 32 bit audio float at ~ 56 minutes.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=9ab04972df9f815bJmltdHM9MTcyMzc2NjQwMCZpZ3VpZD0wY2I4NjQ5Yy1iOWQyLTY2ZDMtMTMwOS03NzU2YjhhZDY3NjUmaW5zaWQ9NTU4Nw&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0cb8649c-b9d2-66d3-1309-7756b8ad6765&u=a1L3ZpZGVvcy9yaXZlcnZpZXcvcmVsYXRlZHZpZGVvP3E9R0g3K3JldmlldyZtaWQ9QTFBMkMwMjI5RTVGMzg1RjU4RUZBMUEyQzAyMjlFNUYzODVGNThFRiZGT1JNPVZJUkU&ntb=1

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 7:17 AM

@RogerS

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vk77piw4d2xb0076nrseb/01-Float-32-bit-issue.zip?rlkey=p4abz0wves2mlw69fdtzcn815&dl=0

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 7:34 AM

@Yelandkeil

"Watched the video roughly, got one suspicion: such high DB range really useful in studio (for orchestra or that like), also in a noisy street?"

It's just a France 24 News item TV recording, then shooting the recording playing on the TV.

What I may do later maybe today, or not, is download the latest version of Audicity and see if the levels of 32bit and proxy are the same, assuming Audicity can read the file..

I know that the proxy audio is not taken from the internal stereo microphone

Dexcon wrote on 8/16/2024, 8:14 AM

In Preferences/Quality, Audacity does have a 32-bit float Default Sample Format setting - as does Sound Forge Pro (and it also has a 64-bit float option). Conversely, Vegas Pro in Preferences has a maximum sample format setting of 24-bit.

It's just a France 24 News item TV recording, then shooting the recording playing on the TV.

For future such recordings, if your camera has a 16-bit or 24-bit option, why not use one of those options for use in Vegas Pro? Using 32-bit float for recording audio from a TV set seems a OTT. As per @Yelandkeil

... such high DB range really useful in studio (for orchestra or that like), also in a noisy street?

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 8:27 AM

Problem is, that's a Panasonic know-how, not standard floating wav format.

That assumes that they are not doing it as per whatever the industry standard is for float 32 bit.

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 8:31 AM

I'm not that good with audio. If I knew more I probably wouldn't need to post here. My assumption is that it is simply supported by some but not all NLE's as per the GH7 review link I posted above.

I assume that this 32 bit float audio is not the same as the wav 32 bit format.

Dexcon wrote on 8/16/2024, 8:58 AM

For a bit of background, have a look at the following link: https://www.wired.com/story/32-bit-float-audio-explained/

I'm sure that you'll find other maybe even differing points-of-view by exploring other hits for '32-bit floating audio' on the internet. IMO, I cannot believe that recording audio at higher than 24 or even 16 bits is going to improve the audio quality of a TV set recording - it won't - and the volume issue if it exists can easily be fixed by easily available compression VST in Vegas Pro.

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 9:12 AM

@Yelandkeil

I cannot test in Audacity because when I output the audio to .mov, Audacity doesn't handle .mov

So I tried ffmpeg to output to wav but get this message "Codec pcm_f32be not supported in WAVE format"

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 9:17 AM

@Dexcon

Thanks for the link.

"I cannot believe that recording audio at higher than 24 or even 16 bits is going to improve the audio quality of a TV set recording "

There was no attempt or expectation of improving quality from TV set. I used that method simply to generate the in camera file with 32 bit float as requested.

The benefit of the XLR2 device is not to improve quality but rather to prevent clipping, bottom and top.

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 9:46 AM

@Yelandkeil

"Take focus to the copied video-codec, it's aivx which I never heard!"

I came across that recently as an issue (AIVX) when using the latest version 7 of ffmpeg.

I fixed the encoding syntax issue by adding this to then end, but it may not have to be at the end.

-strict -2

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 9:51 AM

Note that when installing Audacity it disables a whole ton of stuff that's used by VP.

VP 22 is still working but I think I will uninstall, then re-install those items and enable those items for VP.

john_dennis wrote on 8/16/2024, 9:54 AM

Use Shutter Encoder to convert your camera files to a flavor of Apple Pro Res that suits your fancy.

It will maintain the 32 bit depth of the audio. I don't know about the "float".

Vegas will likely perform better using Pro Res than the camera acquisition format.

john_dennis wrote on 8/16/2024, 10:01 AM

@johnny-s said: "I think I will uninstall, then re-install those items and enable those items for VP."

That's the reason I use system imaging software.

Macrium Reflect

I can't remember uninstalling and reinstalling anything.

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 10:36 AM

@john_dennis Yes, must look at Macrium.

RE: Audacity plugins.

I think it's just that in Audacity some plugins are displayed as unavailable, unchecked for Audacity, but not for VP, I hope. So should be still available in VP, just disabled in Audacity.

In audacity they can be viewed under Tools/Manage Plugins Then Show All, Type All, then set Category to All instead of Tool) to see the ones that are not used.

This is list of ones not used from start-up install screen of Audacity. It only appears on 1st. Install.

C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins\iZOzone8Elements.dll
C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins\iZRX7Declicker.dll
C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins\iZRX7Declipper.dll
C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins\iZRX7HumRemoval.dll
C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins\iZRX7VoiceDenoiser.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\MFL_u_x64_VC9.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-cn.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-cz.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-da.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-de.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-el.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-en.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-es.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-fi.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-fr.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-hu.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-it.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ja.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ko.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-nl.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-pl.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-pt.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ru.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-sv.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-tr.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-tw.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Online\MagixOFA_u_x64.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\Protein_x64.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Analogue Modelling Suite Plus\Protein\VistaCooperation_u_x64_vc9.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\MFL_u_x64_VC9.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-cn.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-cz.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-da.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-de.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-el.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-en.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-es.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-fi.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-fr.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-hu.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-it.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ja.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ko.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-nl.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-pl.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-pt.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ru.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-sv.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-tr.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-tw.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Online\MagixOFA_u_x64.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\Protein_x64.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\Vandal\Protein\VistaCooperation_u_x64_vc9.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\MFL_u_x64_VC9.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-cn.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-cz.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-da.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-de.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-el.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-en.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-es.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-fi.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-fr.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-hu.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-it.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ja.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ko.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-nl.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-pl.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-pt.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ru.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-sv.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-tr.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-tw.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Online\MagixOFA_u_x64.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\Protein_x64.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\VariVerb II\Protein\VistaCooperation_u_x64_vc9.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\MFL_u_x64_VC9.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-cn.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-cz.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-da.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-de.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-el.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-en.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-es.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-fi.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-fr.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-hu.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-it.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ja.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ko.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-nl.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-pl.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-pt.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-ru.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-sv.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-tr.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA-tw.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Online\MagixOFA_u_x64.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\Protein_x64.dll
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins\MAGIX\essentialFX Suite\Protein\VistaCooperation_u_x64_vc9.dll

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 10:44 AM

"Use Shutter Encoder to convert your camera files to a flavor of Apple Pro Res that suits your fancy."

A good workaround.

johnny-s wrote on 8/16/2024, 2:13 PM

Sometimes it can be right under your nose and you fail to see it.

My initial workaround pending a VP fix was to use the audio in the in camera proxy file. However I wasn't sure that it's range was roughly similar to the 32 bit float version.

I received Sound Forge Pro 18 with VP22 Suite.

When I load the sample dropbox float32 30 second video clip into SFP18 it plays, but without waveforms.

What I can see is that the max peak (in SFP18) at just a fraction above ~ -15 DB is the same for both float32 and proxy clips. Thats at ~ 11 seconds in. This confirms that the range is similar.

So I can use the proxy video file for audio as workaround.

The 32bit float Video file also loads and plays audio in Sound Forge Pro 14.

johnny-s wrote on 8/17/2024, 6:05 AM

@Yelandkeil

1). I have just tested again and Sound Forge Pro 14 build 140 100% plays the float32 clip. In case I was making some mistake I then loaded the same file "01 PGH70206 Float 32.MOV" into VP22 and it doesn't play audio.

Note that there is a bit of silence anyway at the start of this clip, you need to move ~ 3 seconds in for audio to start.

2) "Your understanding of db range seems totally wrong.
A normal recording, say 48kHz16bit profile, will cut off all input information that goes over 0db and cannot be recovered any more in post.
A 32bitfloating profile keeps all info (no matter whether it's over 0db or not)."

I'd be the first to admit that the complexities of audio are way above me.

Richard Wong gives I believe a really good explanation of float 32 bit without completely losing even myself in the weeds.

Well worth a look. I posted the link to his GH7 review earlier in this thread.

The audio section starts at 41:36s.

johnny-s wrote on 8/17/2024, 7:18 AM

@Yelandkeil

AOK. I have uploaded similar clips that now has the audio at start and not 3 seconds in from the start.. These replaced the previous files.

I will display SFP 14 with file in it shortly.

johnny-s wrote on 8/17/2024, 7:31 AM

@Yelandkeil

This shows the (newer files with no silence at start) float 32 top and proxy files bottom loaded in SFP 14. The waveforms do display for both now, didn't yesterday.