5.1 Surround Render - Only See Stereo Options

rtbond wrote on 12/10/2020, 8:19 AM

I have source media that includes a 5.1 surround sound audio. I have done some minor trimming of the content and now want to render from VP18 for use in in DVD-A for eventual burning to Blu-Ray. All the audio render options I am seeing in VP18 are stereo. The project properties are set to 5.1 surround sound. What am I missing?

Thanks in advance.

Rob Bond

My System Info:

  • Vegas Pro 18 Build 373
  • OS: Windows 10.0 (64-bit), Version: 10.0.19041
  • Processor: i9-10940X CPU @ 3.30GHz (14 core)
  • Physical memory: 64GB (Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 memory kit)
  • Motherboard Model: MSI x299 Creator (MS-7B96)
  • GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER XC ULTRA (Studio Driver Version =  457.30)
  • Storage: Dual Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD (boot and Render); WDC WD4004FZWX, 7200 RPM (media)
  • Secondary Display: LG 32UK550-B, entry-level 4k/HDR-10 level monitor, @95% DCI-P3 coverage

Comments

Turd wrote on 12/10/2020, 9:38 AM

Of course, you can render 5.1 audio, but by no means is it a one-click -- or even a two or three-click -- process! Oddly enough, your project audio settings do not need to be in 5.1 mode to do this. In fact, the way I render surround audio, it's easier if you leave the project setting in stereo!

It took me quite a while to figure out the following procedure for six audio channels (for 5.1 channels total) that works for me:

Begin by inserting six audio buses into your project: Insert > Audio Bus (X6). Each bus will be automatically assigned letters A through F.

Insert six audio tracks to your timeline: Insert > Audio Track.

Right-click on each audio track header and assign each track to it's own audio bus: Output > Bus [A - F].

Drop your individual audio clip channels onto each appropriate audio track, keeping in mind the final output order:

  1. Channel 1 (Bus A) = Front-Left
  2. Channel 2 (Bus B) = Front-Right
  3. Channel 3 (Bus C) = Center
  4. Channel 4 (Bus D) = LFE
  5. Channel 5 (Bus E) = Left-Surround
  6. Channel 6 (Bus F) = Right-Surround

You may assign as many audio tracks as you wish to each audio bus to mix more than one track per output channel -- but that's getting fancy!

Now it's time to render. You must choose a render format that supports multi-channel audio. Not all of them do. My work primarily uses .xmf for broadcast, which does support multi-channel audio.

Choose a format Template (my favorite "Sony MXF" template is: HD422 1920x1080-60i 50 Mbps).

Under "Render Options" be sure to check "Enable multichannel mapping".

As soon as "Enable multichannel mapping" is chosen a new option labeled "Channels..." will pop up. Click on that new "Channels..." pop-up and you'll see all the audio channel mapping options. To make things as easy as possible I check the "Mono downmix" option for each bus -- but leave all the "Master" options blank -- check ONLY the busses!

In "Customize Template..." go to the "Audio" tab and choose: Channels: 8. Yes -- eight channels! In the broadcast world, the first six audio channels are the 5.1 channels listed above and channels 7-8 are reserved for SAP stereo audio.

You're now cleared to "Render" your project with all the surround channels intact!

Note to self (everyone else please look away -- the note that follows is a reminder for mine eyes only): Figure out a clever, kick-booty signature that suggests I'm completely aware of how to properly and exhaustively party on and that I, in fact, engage in said act on a frequent and spontaneous basis. All joking aside, listing my computer's properties is a futile endeavor. I edit multimedia in a local television station newsroom that has Vegas Pro installed on several machines with widely varied specs. We began editing non-linearly with Pinnacle Studio Version 8. That didn't last long before we upgraded to Vegas Video Version 4, then to Vegas Pro 10.

Former user wrote on 12/10/2020, 10:04 AM

@Turd very good tutorial.

 

rtbond wrote on 12/10/2020, 10:55 AM

@Turd Thanks for the information. The other piece of the puzzle is selecting a render format that is compatibility with DVD-A for authoring the Blu-Ray. When dealing with stereo audio I would render AVC and AC3 out of VP18, which are compatible with DVD-A.

Any thoughts on DVD-A 5.1 compatibility? I tried rendering the audio in Sony64w 5.1-channel (PCM) format (not following you approach), but DVD-A apparently does not recognize this format.

Last changed by rtbond on 12/10/2020, 10:57 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Rob Bond

My System Info:

  • Vegas Pro 18 Build 373
  • OS: Windows 10.0 (64-bit), Version: 10.0.19041
  • Processor: i9-10940X CPU @ 3.30GHz (14 core)
  • Physical memory: 64GB (Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 memory kit)
  • Motherboard Model: MSI x299 Creator (MS-7B96)
  • GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER XC ULTRA (Studio Driver Version =  457.30)
  • Storage: Dual Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD (boot and Render); WDC WD4004FZWX, 7200 RPM (media)
  • Secondary Display: LG 32UK550-B, entry-level 4k/HDR-10 level monitor, @95% DCI-P3 coverage
Turd wrote on 12/10/2020, 11:18 AM

@Turd Thanks for the information. The other piece of the puzzle is selecting a render format that is compatibility with DVD-A for authoring the Blu-Ray. When dealing with stereo audio I would render AVC and AC3 out of VP18, which are compatible with DVD-A.

Any thoughts on DVD-A 5.1 compatibility? I tried rendering the audio in Sony64w 5.1-channel (PCM) format (not following you approach), but DVD-A apparently does not recognize this format.

@rtbond You might have to do some experimenting. Linear PCM is supposed to be Blu-Ray compatible.

Try my method to render a Sony Wave64 > 44,100Mhz, 16 Bit, Mono, PCM (Multiple) file and/or a Wave (Microsoft) > 44,100Mhz, 16 Bit, Mono, PCM (Multiple) file and see if either of those work.

Note to self (everyone else please look away -- the note that follows is a reminder for mine eyes only): Figure out a clever, kick-booty signature that suggests I'm completely aware of how to properly and exhaustively party on and that I, in fact, engage in said act on a frequent and spontaneous basis. All joking aside, listing my computer's properties is a futile endeavor. I edit multimedia in a local television station newsroom that has Vegas Pro installed on several machines with widely varied specs. We began editing non-linearly with Pinnacle Studio Version 8. That didn't last long before we upgraded to Vegas Video Version 4, then to Vegas Pro 10.

rtbond wrote on 12/10/2020, 5:22 PM

@Turd Sure I may give it a try, although DVD-A project audio properties are limited to AC-3 5.1 Surround, AC-3 Stereo, and PCM Stereo.

Rob Bond

My System Info:

  • Vegas Pro 18 Build 373
  • OS: Windows 10.0 (64-bit), Version: 10.0.19041
  • Processor: i9-10940X CPU @ 3.30GHz (14 core)
  • Physical memory: 64GB (Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 memory kit)
  • Motherboard Model: MSI x299 Creator (MS-7B96)
  • GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER XC ULTRA (Studio Driver Version =  457.30)
  • Storage: Dual Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD (boot and Render); WDC WD4004FZWX, 7200 RPM (media)
  • Secondary Display: LG 32UK550-B, entry-level 4k/HDR-10 level monitor, @95% DCI-P3 coverage
Turd wrote on 12/11/2020, 8:17 AM

I hate to suggest using an external program and adding another step to finish your process, but if there's no other way, you can always convert your multi-channel wave file to ac3 as a final step:

http://wieslawsoltes.github.io/wavtoac3encoder/

Note to self (everyone else please look away -- the note that follows is a reminder for mine eyes only): Figure out a clever, kick-booty signature that suggests I'm completely aware of how to properly and exhaustively party on and that I, in fact, engage in said act on a frequent and spontaneous basis. All joking aside, listing my computer's properties is a futile endeavor. I edit multimedia in a local television station newsroom that has Vegas Pro installed on several machines with widely varied specs. We began editing non-linearly with Pinnacle Studio Version 8. That didn't last long before we upgraded to Vegas Video Version 4, then to Vegas Pro 10.

rtbond wrote on 12/11/2020, 9:17 AM

@Turd I think I will have too as DVD-A will not accept the W64 multi-channel audio file, even when created using the approach you suggested. Unfortunately the WAV to AC-3 converter is a not useful in my case as I cannot produce Microsoft WAV from VP-18 because it states the render will exceed the maximum file size allowed by the WAV format. A never end series if side steps! LOL. Any other suggested converters? Google finds several candidates,

Rob Bond

My System Info:

  • Vegas Pro 18 Build 373
  • OS: Windows 10.0 (64-bit), Version: 10.0.19041
  • Processor: i9-10940X CPU @ 3.30GHz (14 core)
  • Physical memory: 64GB (Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 memory kit)
  • Motherboard Model: MSI x299 Creator (MS-7B96)
  • GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER XC ULTRA (Studio Driver Version =  457.30)
  • Storage: Dual Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD (boot and Render); WDC WD4004FZWX, 7200 RPM (media)
  • Secondary Display: LG 32UK550-B, entry-level 4k/HDR-10 level monitor, @95% DCI-P3 coverage
rtbond wrote on 12/11/2020, 10:21 AM

OK, final update (I think). I circled back to VP17, which from reading other threads still included the "Digital Dolby AC-3 Studio". I initially looked here as an option for producing 5.1 Surround AC-3, but still only saw stereo, but then it occurred to me to set the project properties to (Audio tab) "Master bus mode: 5.1 Surround". Once I did this VP17 does show a "5.1 Surround DVD" template for the "Digital Dolby AC-3 Studio" Render As option. DVD-A was then happy consuming this AC-3 file.

WOW, Magix could you make this any more convoluted? (i.e., requiring me to regress one version for functionality needed to render a 5.1 Surround output compatible with DVD-A)? This is a great way to drive long time users (Vegas v4) away.

Last changed by rtbond on 12/11/2020, 10:23 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Rob Bond

My System Info:

  • Vegas Pro 18 Build 373
  • OS: Windows 10.0 (64-bit), Version: 10.0.19041
  • Processor: i9-10940X CPU @ 3.30GHz (14 core)
  • Physical memory: 64GB (Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 memory kit)
  • Motherboard Model: MSI x299 Creator (MS-7B96)
  • GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER XC ULTRA (Studio Driver Version =  457.30)
  • Storage: Dual Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD (boot and Render); WDC WD4004FZWX, 7200 RPM (media)
  • Secondary Display: LG 32UK550-B, entry-level 4k/HDR-10 level monitor, @95% DCI-P3 coverage