Aargh!!? Vegas is rebuilding all my sfk files

riredale wrote on 10/26/2003, 11:23 PM
I am working on a project that involves about 50 hours of raw video. This project has been in the PC for a month now, and by now all the avi clips have associated sfk (the audio waveform) files.

Then suddenly tonight Vegas decides that it can't see any of those sfk files, and needs to rebuild them as I place the clips on the timeline. Why?

I know it's not a critical thing, but it takes quite a while to rebuild sfk files for 50 hours of video. I don't recall changing any settings in the program in the past 24 hours, so why would Vegas suddenly decide it needed to recreate the sfk files?


BillyBoy wrote on 10/26/2003, 11:32 PM
That's a new one on me. I've never seen it.

If Vegas actually says it can't "see" something, maybe worth closing down and rebooting in case its a Windows thing. I've seen Windows loose drives, folders and what not that was cured by a simple reboot.

Just remember Billy G says he only hires programmers with extra high IQ's, because according to him only really, really smart people should author software. And of course that's why Windows never crashes.

kentwolf wrote on 10/26/2003, 11:45 PM
You know, last night I was working on a 6 hour project, rebooted to another partition (same source material), and Vegas started rebuilding some of my sfk files as well.

No issues with not seeing anything, drives, folders accessible, it just simply started rebuilding sfk files.

I've been working this (dual boot system) for several months and never had this happen like this until last night.

Sfk files started rebuilding themselves out of the blue.

Could these files possibly "expire?" I know it sounds stupid, but that *would* explain this suddenly occurring phenomena.

These clips have been my computer for some months.
riredale wrote on 10/27/2003, 12:00 AM

I just rebooted and re-opened Vegas. Same thing--veg files that have been just fine for the past month now see the need to rebuild all the audio waveforms. Again, no harm done, but it takes time to rebuild, and I can't figure out why it would need to.

BTW I've seen the other thread, and both you guys need to play nice.

As a aside (about the early days of PCs), as I mentioned over there, I was with Apple back in the early 80's. I once attended a conference (around 1985) at which Bill Gates gave a speech extolling the virtues of the then-new CD-ROM standard. He was probably only worth $50M then.

Anyway, he gives this speech in a classroom that probably seats 200 or so. His hair in front is cut too long, and every now and then he kind of "flicks" his head to get the hair off his face. But the funny thing was the eyeglasses. Here's a guy, obviously very smart and loaded with cash even then, yet as he is speaking his glasses are gradually sliding down the bridge of his nose. After about 20 seconds, he pushes them back up with his right finger. Then they start their gradual descent again.

It got so that many of us in the audience would be silently counting down the seconds before he would push the frames back up again. All the while he's tossing his head to get the hair back. Oh, and of course he's giving his speech and probably oblivious to the mannerisms.

It was a snapshot in time that I will never forget. I kept thinking to myself, "What an interesting guy--a genuine nerd."
PAW wrote on 10/27/2003, 2:34 AM

This is spooky, yesterday the project I am working on started rebuilding the SFK files!

I am in the UK and if everyone else is I wonder if this had something to do with the clocks changing for daylight saving?

josaver wrote on 10/27/2003, 3:10 AM
I've had the same problem last saturday. Vegas rebuild all my sfk files. And I only restarted the PC from an other program crash,not vegas.

David_Kuznicki wrote on 10/27/2003, 3:48 AM
Oddly enough-- same problem here today... but only with one project, apparently.

It's not nearly as large as some of the other ones that people are working with (it's not even half an hour long), but it was strange... and it took a couple of minutes to open and rebuild.
I opened some other recent projects, and it didn't appear to be an issue with those.


Chienworks wrote on 10/27/2003, 5:49 AM
Yep. This just happened to me last night too. We Alt-Tabbed from Vegas to a different program for a few seconds, then Alt-Tabbed back and Vegas decided to rebuild all the .sfk files. Fortunately it was a rather tiny project so it only took half a minute. It did seem odd though.

Have we all been bitten by some odd bug?
farss wrote on 10/27/2003, 6:09 AM
Well I live in Austrlia, two night ago we went into daylight saving and around that time i noticed much the same sort of thing, maybe that's the connection.

Actually that could cause something weird to happen. I can imagine a routine that checks date and time of a file being thown into a spin if it finds files created later than the time is now.

I've seen the same sort of issues working on real time control systems that log and then sort events (not the video kind!) by date and time. The real time clock had to been time synced very slowly to avoid oddities but I think on the daylight saving transition windows just adds or subtracts an hour in one hit.

You might call that a 'bug' but that's how we've defined it as happening possibly without thinking through the consequences.
The_Jeff wrote on 10/27/2003, 6:10 AM
Ok...Just so they believe us...It happened to me last night too. Also I could be crazy but it felt like vegas took a few more seconds to launch on that attempt as well (and now seems back to normal launch speed with no more rebuilding)
BillyBoy wrote on 10/27/2003, 8:43 AM
I always wondered who Billy G's barber was. As a long time wearer of glasses myself I've done the push them up your nose thing a few times rather than taking a couple minutes to tighten them up a little which is the cause of them slipping. Usually when you do for a while they're too tight and then they can hurt the bridge of your nose.

Just so nobody gets the wrong impression I admire Gates the man, but detest what he's done as CEO/Chairman with Microsoft. It isn't widely reported but Gates already has given away close to a couple billion of his own money to various charties and while he set up a trust fund where each of his kids gets a cool 10 million, the vast majority of his masssive personal fortune is all slated to go to various foundations and charties. So on that score, good for him.
Mandk wrote on 10/27/2003, 9:51 AM
2 hour project four different audio and video streams and had to rebuild the whole thing and I opened it just to add a few transitions.

Seems like a valid question for Sony/Sonic Foundry, what happened?
riredale wrote on 10/27/2003, 10:09 AM
You know, I'll bet there IS some connection with the Daylight-Savings-Time rollback. But what on earth could the connection be?

I guess the real "proof" is to see if any Vegas users in Arizona or some other country where the rollback does not occur has the same issue.
smhontz wrote on 10/27/2003, 12:04 PM
I live in Arizona and do NOT have the bug. All of my projects opened without rebuilding the SFK files.
Mandk wrote on 10/27/2003, 3:00 PM
Why would the programers put such a thing into the program?
PAW wrote on 10/27/2003, 3:15 PM

Not on purpose.........

Could there be a scenario where going over into the new time zone the SFK's are newer than the project file last accessed time stamp - programming logic would compare the dates and find it did not add up - best bet create new ones.

Just guessing but something seems to have happened here to a number of people all around the same time - spooky.

RichMacDonald wrote on 10/27/2003, 3:25 PM
>Why would the programers put such a thing into the program?

Short answer: Accidentally

Longer answer: They need some way to keep the files in sync and they must do this by checking the modified dates of the files. There are many ways to do this, e.g., do you use the modified dates of the files on the hard drive (which can be screwed up by other programs, btw, so its not reliable), or do you store the dates in some separate file. And you have to query the computer to get the current date. Whichever approach Sonic took, combined with whatever algorithm they use to compare dates, it has a bug when daylight savings is involved. So when the files were created and modified before daylight savings, then the project reopened after daylight savings, the algorithm mis-concludes that the source files have been changed and the target files need to be re-created.

FWIW, date computations are some of the simplest-sounding and devil-in-details issues in computing. Programmers hate doing them because of all the subtle gotchas. For example, how would you compare dates when twice a year an hour "appears" or "disappears", but only in some places and not in others? Say I created a file on Friday, copied it to a computer in Arizona on Saturday, copied it back on Sunday, and compared the two on Monday: What on earth would be the result? Would it be right? Not so simple, is it?
BrianStanding wrote on 10/27/2003, 3:46 PM
themartaman wrote on 10/27/2003, 5:25 PM
One word "Sunspots"
Chienworks wrote on 10/27/2003, 6:29 PM
Hmmm, i dunno. One one hand we have the overwhelming evidence that this happened to many people on the day that the time changed. On the other hand, on my computer at least, Vegas wasn't open when the time changed. 3:00am became 2:00am again, but it wasn't until 4:00pm that i cranked up Vegas and loaded the project, at which time the .sfk files appeared intact. It was at least 3 hours later that they suddenly redrew. So, if this bug was somehow related to the time change, it wasn't the time change itself that actually triggered the event.
KPITRL wrote on 10/27/2003, 7:10 PM
I too had that same problem the other day, I thought it may have had to do with my upgrade to Vegas 4-D about a week ago.
crowbird wrote on 10/28/2003, 9:00 AM
Vegas no longer sees my old (3-4 mos) SFK files. When I try to open them, it says that there was an error, no details. How do I open and rebuild? Novice needs help!
Chienworks wrote on 10/28/2003, 11:30 AM
crowbird, you don't open .sfk files. These are associated with media files that you do open, .wav .avi .mpg .mpeg, etc. If Vegas needs to create a .sfk file for your media files then it will do so automatically. If you think you have a corrupted .sfk file then just delete it and Vegas will replace it when it needs to.
SonyTSW wrote on 10/29/2003, 9:58 AM
Thanks for the heads up on this issue, we've looked into it.

The problem is that Vegas uses local time format for comparing the .sfk files (value is stored internally in the file) vs. the last modification date for the media file. When you changed your clock, the time stored in the .sfk file no longer matched the file time for the media file, so the peaks file was rebuilt.

Local time is used for validation of the peaks file because legacy win16 did not provide a means for obtaining UTC (it's like GMT). Changing this will be tricky because existing applications would continue to use local time for this validation. We will look into correcting this problem for future application upgrades.
PAW wrote on 10/29/2003, 10:11 AM

You know this was one bug I kinda enjoyed having - the thought of us all sitting there going what the! - all at roughly the same time.

Gotta see the funny side.