'Add Hitfilm Effect' crashes VP15 when applying to Empty Event

AVsupport wrote on 12/8/2017, 9:25 PM

unfortunately, it does. HFP6. Why would anyone want to do this you may ask?

I want to generate all text, extrusions, tracking in HFP6 from within a totally separate video event in my Vegas timeline so I can do with this what I want.

I can add media FX like Ignite Text, Extrusions to the Empty Event, all fine, but as soon as I want to context-click add Hitfilm, it crashes with an 'unmanaged exception'.

Would be nice if that could get fixed. Or someone please tell me how I should be doing this properly. Tried to create an empty video event like any other clip on the timeline, without the vision (but not black, maybe alpha), but couldn't really..

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Comments

GJeffrey wrote on 12/8/2017, 11:17 PM

This is a long standing limitation from HitFilm side.
I had a ticket with them for the same question. Reply was that it's not supported, as well a stills BTW.
The workaround I found is putting any video on the timeline matching the length I want, then deleting this video in Hitfilm and create what I want to.

Grazie wrote on 12/8/2017, 11:29 PM

I've just tested with HitFilm Ver 1.1 and it's working with "Light Flares".

Last changed by Grazie on 12/8/2017, 11:30 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Grazie

PC 10 64-bit 64gb * Intel® Core™i9 - 3.3GHz * 8 GB graphics card with 32 GB of shared NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

Marco. wrote on 12/9/2017, 6:55 AM

Not sure if this is an option – why not skipping the Empty Event creation in Vegas Pro and creating the file in HitFilm Pro solely, saving the HitFilm Pro project, then importing the HitFilm project file into Vegas Pro. It works similar to nesting.

You could also add the HitFilm Pro project file as Take into an Empty Event in Vegas Pro.l

AVsupport wrote on 12/9/2017, 10:52 PM

@GJeffrey thanks for the info & workaround, shame Stills are a NoGo either; @Grazie , it's about the right-click 'add hitfilm effect' which opens the HF editor and returns with a HF-copy of the clipname in it; @Marco. this is not quite as elegant a solution since I was after tight integration and individual clips that then can be archived.

Is there a way in VP15 to create a proper empty video event like a copy of whatever clip from the timeline like Jeffrey suggested (hence keeping video format info, names, duration, framerate..), nuke the video (perhaps replace with Alpha) and keep the file info intact ?

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Grazie wrote on 12/10/2017, 12:14 AM

@Grazie , it's about the right-click 'add hitfilm effect' which opens the HF editor and returns with a HF-copy of the clipname in it;

And there was I thinking it was about it crashing? What was I thinking! Silly me... 😏

AVsupport wrote on 12/10/2017, 1:59 AM

@Grazie , it's about the right-click 'add hitfilm effect' which opens the HF editor and returns with a HF-copy of the clipname in it;

And there was I thinking it was about it crashing? What was I thinking! Silly me... 😏

well, yes, Vegas will crash when you do that to the 'Empty Event' that has been created by Vegas. I'm thinking this 'Empty Event' lacks some vital information to be recognized elsewhere as a valid video source..would be good if it could inherit the project video settings maybe that would fix it?

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Grazie wrote on 12/10/2017, 3:18 AM
well, yes, Vegas will crash when you do that to the 'Empty Event' that has been created by Vegas.

Well, no, not here, unless I’m not comparing your process and this is something not apparent to HF 1.1 .

I'm thinking this 'Empty Event' lacks some vital information to be recognized elsewhere as a valid video source..would be good if it could inherit the project video settings maybe that would fix it?

Without actually doing an interim Render, how do you think Vegas would add Project info to an Empty event? Seems counter-possible to me.

Last changed by Grazie on 12/10/2017, 3:19 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Grazie

PC 10 64-bit 64gb * Intel® Core™i9 - 3.3GHz * 8 GB graphics card with 32 GB of shared NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

AVsupport wrote on 12/10/2017, 3:56 AM

@Grazie: 1. Timeline Right-click Create an Empty Event 2. Right-click the 'Empty Event' clip > select 'Add Hitfilm Effect 3. CRASH.

Not sure what you're referring to with HF 1.1?? I'm using the latest HFP6 (this clip should open in the standalone HFP6 window, that's the idea!)

I think Vegas should be able to 'Create an empty Video Event' like the export of HFP6 does, which just contains an Alpha channel only, nothing else, when you export the composite layer only (for example, you're doing a text. No rendering needed, this is seethrough.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Grazie wrote on 12/10/2017, 4:28 AM

@Grazie: 1. Timeline Right-click Create an Empty Event 2. Right-click the 'Empty Event' clip > select 'Add Hitfilm Effect 3. CRASH.

Nope, still no crash:

 

Not sure what you're referring to with HF 1.1??

See the Piccie above? Version 1.1.

I'm using the latest HFP6 (this clip should open in the standalone HFP6 window, that's the idea!)

No, I'm not using that. So maybe there is an issue with VP<>HFP6?

I think Vegas should be able to 'Create an empty Video Event' like the export of HFP6 does, which just contains an Alpha channel only, nothing else, when you export the composite layer only (for example, you're doing a text. No rendering needed, this is seethrough.

Yeah, I still think that the way with which VP works would mean an interim ALPHA Render. I use the MOV Animation Template works nice enough.

But no crashing. How's your .NET Framework? Up to date?

 

AVsupport wrote on 12/10/2017, 5:18 AM

@Grazie I think we're not doing the same thing. You are adding an Event FX or Media FX. That is different to what I am doing, which is Right Click on the clip, then there is a totally separate 'Add Hitfilm Effect' menu item which under normal circumstances would open that particular clip in Hitfilm 6, the standalone software, where you can then add your fx etc, and then returns the clip to Vegas as a new media file. What you are doing is adding plugin fx, and looking at the version of that particular plugin.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Grazie wrote on 12/10/2017, 7:14 AM

Is there a separate HF option within the VP DropDown Menu?

AVsupport wrote on 12/10/2017, 2:35 PM

Yes there is. But it doesn’t always show up, like when you select a ‘generated text’ clip or TitlerPro..those can’t be sent to HFP..

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Grazie wrote on 12/10/2017, 3:02 PM

Gotta be a feature of HFP? What happens if you add it as a a straight FX to the Event?

Last changed by Grazie on 12/10/2017, 3:03 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Grazie

PC 10 64-bit 64gb * Intel® Core™i9 - 3.3GHz * 8 GB graphics card with 32 GB of shared NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

AVsupport wrote on 12/10/2017, 3:11 PM

It's a totally different workflow. The HFP6 integration above opens the file in the HF editor where you can do all your effects, compositiong, tracking, camera solving....When you're done in HFP you'll end up with a copy of your clip [clipname]_0000.HFP on the Vegas timeline which will always open up with HF if edited again. This is vastly different to just slapping a Vegas-built-in (including plugins) effect on a clip

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Grazie wrote on 12/10/2017, 11:41 PM

This is vastly different to just slapping a Vegas-built-in (including plugins) effect on a clip

Understood.

Do you think MAGIX is reading this thread and will respond? As others have done, will you be opening a “Ticket” with MAGIX and the HitFilm developers? It is appearing, as others haven’t chimed-in with a solution or a sufficient enough workaround, and if you are still wanting a solution, you are really going to need to escalate the issue. Will you?

AVsupport wrote on 12/11/2017, 12:29 AM

I shall see if I can come up with a quick & meaningful workaround first, that helps me probably more in the short term;

I have the feeling this 'issue' is going to become a finger pointing exercise, and I just had my fair share of that..

edit/ thought: As I see it, the 'empty event' doesn't contain enough info to be a 'valid event' as far as Magix is concerned, they could fix that. Alternatively, HF could produce a Vegas-native plugin that goes 'Create Hitfilm Event' like Titler does. simple. but Hitfilm has to do that. And good luck with that...

Last changed by AVsupport on 12/11/2017, 12:33 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Grazie wrote on 12/11/2017, 1:04 AM

I have the feeling this 'issue' is going to become a finger pointing exercise, and I just had my fair share of that..

Oh yes. We have all been here many many times. Bottom line here is the cost<>value imperative: "Will we make or loose money by providing solutions"

edit/ thought: As I see it, the 'empty event' doesn't contain enough info to be a 'valid event' as far as Magix is concerned, they could fix that. Alternatively, HF could produce a Vegas-native plugin that goes 'Create Hitfilm Event' like Titler does. simple. but Hitfilm has to do that. And good luck with that...

Quite. But we still need to say it and re-invoke the image of us not being lead by the nose. And yes, I too use NBTP6Uli and that fires-up an exo-VP session. MOCHA too. What VegasMAGIX need to do is get a handle on their 3rd Party Partner of HF and work on a solution.

Was that the sound of a Tree falling in the Forest?

 

Marco. wrote on 12/11/2017, 2:58 AM

I think the only thing Magix could (and should) do is that sending an Empty Event to HitFilm Pro would not work at all – just in the way it works (more precisely: doesn't work) for any Generated Media. There should be no option to send an Empty Event to HitFilm.

For this kind of workflow HitFilm needs a path to a real media file which Generated Media and Empty Events are not. An Empty Event is just a placeholder. HitFilm can't access them because there is nothing to access.

Grazie wrote on 12/11/2017, 4:06 AM

Marco - YES!

AVsupport wrote on 12/11/2017, 4:52 AM

What about having Vegas creating a Video file (with project settings) with an Alpha channel only? Give it a proper file name and this could work, no? Or is there another way of doing exactly that? (Remember: Stills dont work either...)

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Marco. wrote on 12/11/2017, 4:54 AM

There is no such a thing as a video file without video but alpha. This would be a black frame.

What would be needed is HitFilm to be able to import a Vegas Pro project file instead of reading the source media files. But this is completely different from the way it works now and I doubt HitFilm could do that.

This is why I recommended to use kind of an "Empty HitFilm Event" instead. You would need to create it once and from now you could use this "empty" HitFilm project file just like an Vegas "Empty Event", you could send it back and forth to HitFilm and won't loose anything of this certain workflow except you have to once save an empty HitFilm project at a very first step.

AVsupport wrote on 12/11/2017, 5:17 AM

Yeah right @Marco. this is what brought me to this idea (video file with alpha channel) in the first place..I copied a video event in VP, right-click sent off to HFP, converted it to a composite, hid the video layer, slapped on text and whatever,which then brings it back to VP as Text on Alpha; free to move around and apply anywhere. But sure, this is a .hfp file and that's not the same thing I get it

edit/ I shall try 100% clip opacity next before VP->HF export..will keep you posted

Last changed by AVsupport on 12/11/2017, 5:34 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Grazie wrote on 12/11/2017, 6:03 AM

@AVsupport: I use MOV Animation for my ALPHA Inter-renders. Works for me.

VEGASDerek wrote on 12/11/2017, 9:35 AM

Regarding the original post, I have reproduced the issue with the empty event. I will enter this bug in our backlog. The crash is a problem on the Vegas side. Unfortunately, adding a HitFilm effect to events that have no media associated with them is not possible to do at the moment, but we should not be crashing when attempted. Thanks for reporting this.