I wrote an article on how to render to FLV from Vegas via Framserving - you can read it here.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com

Cliff,
Hope you can enlighten me. Trying to follow your instructions to render out FLV from and HDV clip out of my S270.

Installed latest FS, v2.5. I also have ON2 Flix Pro 8.53 (latest, as fas I am aware). All goes well until I point Flix to the signpost file. As soon as it's opened by Flix, all I see is jumbled colours to the point I cannot even make out the video clip.

No ideas how to proceed as rendering into FLV or SWF ends up just like the view in the Flix encode window.

Thanks,
Tom

edit: Exactly the same behaviour with a non-HDV clip. Am suspecting the output from FS, as I routinely encode AVIs or MPEGs with the same version of Flix without any problems.

Tom - My settings for Frameserving for the video output is RGB24. Other than that - nothing special is done. Render timeline as Frameserve AVI, select RGB24, open Flix Pro, browse to signpost AVI, select options and render. I use 8 bit color, footage is acquired from my HC7's, etc.

Just tried it again to make sure my process was still correct - I was able to open a 26 minute signpost AVI file in Flix Pro and all looked as it should. I also rendered out a 15 sec clip completely to a 640x360 FLV and the FLV played perfectly in Adobe Media Player.

You NTSC or PAL?

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com

Cliff,
I am NTSC.
Used same as you just stated for FS settings.
What version of FlixPro do you have?
I have no problem rendering directly in FlixPro either AVIs or M2Ts and even Cineform intermediates.
Hmmmm.

My version of Flix Pro is 8.500

What version of DeBug Frameserver are you using - I'm using the very latest.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com

Cliff,
FrameServer is 2.5, FlixPro is 8.530.
Here is what I see in FlixPro.

Direct in Flix
FS to Flix

I have 8.50 on another system. Will go and install FS and try same there and report back.

Thanks for your time so far.
Tom

edit: Well, it has got to be the latest FlixPro 8.530. Both m2t and AVI FServed encodes are working perfectly using FlixPro 8.50.

Go Figure - I'm glad I didn't "UPGRADE" to the latest version - seems to me that the upgrade is a downgrade since it disables the ability to frameserve to it.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com

Cliff,
Lots more that's different:

1. You can't open a saved settings from 8.500, FlixPro dies!!!
2. Saved setting from 8.530 do NOT save settings.
3. Opening a saved 8.530 settings file complains about some 5.21 version!
4. Presets make extensive use of VP6 in the name and using those won't play back with flash player version 7 plugin.

And these are just ones I have found so far and needed to work around.
Not "UPGRADING" was indeed a wise choice, IMNSHO.

Tom

I made mention of the general issues surrounding the latest version of Flix Pro in my article - thanks for trouble shooting this.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com

Cliff,
Another question ...

No matter what I try, I can't seem to end up with a widescreen flash file from a widescreen source. The output dimensions are the correct ratio and I have 'maintain aspect ratio' checked. Even the preview window shows a squished image, though it does see the correct dimensions in the input property.

Any advice? Thx.
Tom

Any advice? Thx.

Sure. Render as... Main Concept AVC (H.264 mp4) and use that. Fully supported in Flash 9.

Tom - I usually set the dimensions to either 320x180, 480x270 or 640x360 - that may resolve any issues since those are wide screen aspect ratios typically used for the web.

Terje - can you be more specific about the procedure. I was under the impression from what I have read on this topic that h264 has to be mainstream, not part 2, not Xvid or Divx, etc. What is the procedure for getting an h264 file to play in Flash video player??? In addition, there are known issues with mp4 files not playing back the audio track cleanly, with issues of artifacts, etc being readily apparent.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com

Cliff,
The last one I tried was - input=1440x1080, output=480x360 and it came out 4:3, even tho' I had 'maintain aspect ratio' selected.

No idea what else to try. Could it be the player skin I am exporting?
Guess it needs more work to figure it out. Just getting into HD, so this is all new.

Terje,
I have some clients who insist on SWF files for certain compatibility reasons. Don't ask.. :-)
Suggestion is valuable tho'.

Tom

480x360 is 4:3. Try setting it to 480x270 and turn off maintain aspect ratio.

Cliff/John,
There must be some subtle maths at work here - too complex for my tiny brain. :-)

Original file format is HDV 1440x1080 = 1.3333 PAR but still shows up as WS in Vegas. Probably non-square pixels??

So, FlixPro needs to be fooled, if indeed it is not honouring non-square pixels. I did try to use 480x270 before I saw your post, John, and as expected, it was correct WS aspect.

Thanks,
Tom

Terje - can you be more specific about the procedure. I was under the impression from what I have read on this topic that h264 has to be mainstream, not part 2

Sure. Render as... -> Select "Main Concept AVC/AAC" type, then you can either use one of the supplied templates, I rarely do. Select the output size, say 480x270 (I use 16:9 here), your bitrate, again according to your needs, Profile Main, framerate as you see fit, probably progressive, and you press OK.

Will work fine. Don't know of any major limitations.

not Xvid or Divx

Xvid and DivX are not (well, until this week I guess) H.264, they are MPEG-4, but that is something entirely different :-)

AVC/AAC, H.264, Mainconcept. Words to remember. Will work like a charm.

Terje - I understand how to render out the file, what's the setup to get them to play inside the FLV player???

My understanding is also that the file cannot be streamed - only progressive download and will not play until the whole file is downloaded to the viewer.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com

mpg4 files rendered out of Vegas ( and most other NLEs ) will not play progressively like .flv.

They have to be downloaded 100% before they start playing. That's one thing Sony should add/fix. Google "moov atom". It needs to be at the beginning of the file, then it would play progressively. Right now it's the last thing in the file and you need a third party program to move it to the front, which defeats the whole purpose of convenience of being able to just render directly from Vegas once and forget about it.

deusx said:
mpg4 files rendered out of Vegas ( and most other NLEs ) will not play progressively like .flv.

That was my point - it's easier to just frameserve to Flix Pro and create an FLV more or less directly. Not totally sure on this last point, but working in Avid doesn't allow rendering an FLV directly so I don't think this is just a Vegas issue. Correct me if I'm wrong on this last point.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com

I don't think any NLE does it. the right way as far as mp4s go. Even adobe's own premiere doesn't.

Not sure about avid, probably doesn't render directly to .flv, and I suspect even premiere won't give you 2 pass renders to .flv. You probaby get only the basic stuff just like in flash itself.

Some people may prefer to use mp4 though. Not as compatible, doesn't play progressively ( render out of vegas ) , but it can look slightly better at slightly smaller file sizes

To answer both of your questions, you don't have to do anything at all to make the mp4 play in an flv player, it is supported automagically. Some flv players, Jeroen's older versions for example, checked the file extension of the file and would not play non-flv extensions, then you had to rename the file.

Then, of course, there is the MOOV atom. At the end of the file if you use Vegas or Premiere. That is easy to fix though. I use QTIndexSwapper to fix this. Great little tool you can get from http://renaun.com/blog/2007/08/22/234/ which is an AIR application. Works great with AIR Beta 3 and later (says only Beta 3 on the site, 1.0 and later works fine). QTIndexSwapper reads the flv and moves the atom in a few seconds.

http://renaun.com/blog/2007/08/22/234/

Run it and the file will play progressively.

I get the the impression that one needs to have Adobe's CS3 Streaming Media server in order to stream MP4's within an FLV container - something most of us don't have access to for basic web hosting - again, I defer to rendering out VP6 based FLV's for the time being.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ.com