As expected, Vegas 12 is not stable...

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Geoff_Wood wrote on 10/3/2012, 4:38 PM
Ever considered tracking down exactly what it is in your (and others in the unstable club) system(s?) that makes Vegas so unstable ? Presumably there is one thing (hopefully just one ...) in common ?

Maybe a comprehensive log of what factors are involved for each person- media type, project settings, hardware, drivers, FX installed and/or in use, OS update level, other software installed, etc Presumably SCS already do this in-house.....

geoff
Geoff_Wood wrote on 10/3/2012, 4:52 PM
What happens if you run V12 without "dozens of applications running" ?

From a clean boot.

geoff
John_Cline wrote on 10/3/2012, 4:58 PM
" I'm no Sherlock, but logic would lead me to Vegas as having faulty code."

Logic would lead me to believe that if Vegas had faulty code then everyone would be having the same problems. Vegas v12 works fine for me but I have GPU acceleration turned off, my six-core 980x is fast enough by itself.
Over the years, Vegas preview and playback problems can occasionally be traced to faulty video drivers but far more often, faulty sound card drivers. ASIO drivers in particular. Try changing the audio properties from whatever it is to something different, like Windows Classic or Direct Sound.
Premiere and even Avid Media Composer are not without their share of issues, go read their forums if you don't believe me. Also, with every nVidia driver release, there is a long list of bug fixes that resolve issues with various games. I also visit some programmer forums and there are people pulling their hair out trying to get Cuda to work reliably in their software. It isn't just Vegas.
Marc S wrote on 10/3/2012, 5:13 PM
I'm one of the lucky ones who dogged a bullet with Vegas 11. After so many problems with Vegas 9 and 10 early releases I decided to wait on Vegas 11. When it was clear it was not getting fixed I never upgraded. I'll be watching Vegas 12 to see how it progresses and will give it a try before the special ends. I sure hope Sony solves the stability problems in this version because I love the Vegas workflow and I'm very pleased to see Vegas new feature of exporting to other editors.
JJKizak wrote on 10/3/2012, 6:32 PM
I was just suggesting that the problems of Vegas Pro are maybe not all contained in Vegas that maybe there are multiple parameters at work here. Windows 7 has had hundreds of updates and uses much more memory. Nvida has one every week. The third party people are in a mesmionic fog trying to keep up with all this stuff. I just roll along with Vista without a care in the world because I would have to junk everything to upgrade to Win 7. But then again I have acquired a cold and I may not be thinking correctly.
JJK
JHendrix2 wrote on 10/3/2012, 8:23 PM
"
What happens if you run V12 without "dozens of applications running" ?

From a clean boot."

thats voodoo....its bad code period
deusx wrote on 10/3/2012, 8:50 PM
>>> I have dozens of applications running on my PC at any one time.<<<

So, you are breaking the first rule of audio and video editing.

Even AVID will still recommend that you should have absolutely nothing running on your workstation other than their NLE and/or protools. Not even something as basic as an antivirus program. You should even track down and disable hardware like Ethernet connection, wireless card, blue tooth, depending on how much they interfere with your system ( each system will have different problems ).

I used to have a machine without internet / antivirus just for audio and video editing. These days they are fast enough to run those without much interference, but should still be turned off when recording audio.

In short, if you are running anything while recording audio or editing video you aren't being serious about it.
VanLazarus wrote on 10/3/2012, 8:50 PM
JHendrix... My sentiments EXACTLY. It's computer voodoo if you think an application should only run without crashing from a clean boot with nothing else running.

Can the non-programmers please stop suggesting that software should only run without crashing by itself? Absolute nonsense. Getting it to run fast? Well, yes... that makes sense. But code that is designed to run in a multithreaded environment, does not explode when other applications run concurrently with it! Software makers suggest that you don't run anything else so that your application runs as fast and smoothly as possible, not because running Solitaire in the background will crash their software!

People suggesting that many problems are GPU related are probably much more accurate in their assessment. Vegas just doesn't handle GPU's well yet. I just tried to recreate my crash with my GPU turned off and Vegas 12 previewed the project without crashing.

John Cline and Geoff Wood... I have spent many hours communicating with SCS about my problems and given them whatever information they requested. A few months ago, I realized that none of my problems had been fixed and that few of them had even been investigated properly... even the recreatable ones. What are you expecting me to do? Take my computer to Wisconsin, take a few hostages, and demand that they fix my recreatable bugs?

JJKizak... You are right that Vegas depends on many components, many of them not in their control. All the more reason for their QA procedures to be thorough and only release software when they have fully tested it. It's a total cop-out when selling a NLE to adopt the attitude that there are too many variables, let's just ship it, and let the paying customers help us solve our problems.... 'we can patch it in a few months'. Imagine if the engineers writing the code for your car had the same attitude? After a few deaths, Sony would either address the problem or go out of business. Unfortunately, all that is lost with Vegas being shipped incomplete is my productivity.

Hopefully, with my GPU disabled, I'll be able to use Vegas 12 without it crashing as often. Most likely, I'll be using Vegas 11 (patch #6!!!) for paid work.
VanLazarus wrote on 10/3/2012, 9:17 PM
Deusx.... I'm not being serious about editing if I have multiple applications open? Interesting. Actually, I think I'm very serious. I'm curious what type of editing you do.

The last few projects I've edited.... I usually have multiple instances of Vegas open, Sound Forge open for audio editing (Vegas should play nice at least with other Sony software, right?).... actually, it doesn't... :) I typically have file control issues when opening an audio file in Sound Forge from within Vegas... anyways, I digress... I usually have a few instances of Firefox open because I have to communicate with clients in email and chat... also, might be uploading a few samples of completed work to Vimeo or Screencast.... I might even have Filezilla open and be uploading content shot for a client to an FTP server....

Windows is a multitasking environment, right? That's why I have 2 monitors... so I can multitask. All the other software runs without crashing... Only Vegas crashes regularly....

But then again, Vegas crashes just as often with only itself running! So I'm with JHendrix on this one.... thinking that Vegas crashes because I run other applications is computer voodoo.
Kimberly wrote on 10/3/2012, 9:53 PM
@Van:

Hmmmm, nevermind. Your Dropbox link works fine.

Kimberly
VanLazarus wrote on 10/3/2012, 11:43 PM
After disabling GPU, Vegas 12 has been solid for 2 hours (yes, this is good for me) with only one problem (non-fatal) where preview footage is scrambled (static). This is related to uncompressed AVIs or Cineform AVIs, a problem that I used to experience in Vegas 11. I restarted Vegas and it went away.

I must admit, some of the new features are great! It is my imagination or is it running quicker than Vegas 11? Just a shame that GPU support is still unusable (for me at least).

Argh... I really want to like this software.
VanLazarus wrote on 10/4/2012, 12:22 AM
Hmmmm.... ok, use of Vegas 12 ended for a while. Found a new bug where it won't render a logo animation properly... really weird, seems to wrap the image around and displays an incorrect portion of the image as I pan across it. I guess Sony didn't test Vegas 12 with large images (10800x1870 pixels).

See attached video for demonstration of this 3rd bug I've found (2.5 hours into my Vegas Pro 12 experience).

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/651378/Large%20image%20pancrop%20bug.avi

I also attached a video showing the preview corruption I was getting earlier.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/651378/Corruption%20of%20Uncompressed%20AVI%20composite.avi

You may need VLC to view these videos.
JHendrix2 wrote on 10/4/2012, 12:53 AM
can anyone verify if this is happening in 12?

quote:
"The other issue I have, which I have notified Sony about, is the system doesn't recognise the P2 timecode. "

if i install 12 will P2 work?

if i install 12 will it effect my V10 with Raylight install?

deusx wrote on 10/4/2012, 2:42 AM
When I edit video I don't need to pay any special attention to anything. I can have other apps open and Vegas does just fine. I haven't had any problems with Vegas ever ( using it since version 1 or 2 ).

I run version 11 on 2 laptops and had to do absolutely nothing to make it stable. It uses Sony's defaults and it never crashes or slows down. GPU is nvidia GTX560M and it's on just like Sony intended it to be. 2 laptops, same hardware, same settings, perfect on both.

When I record audio then, yes, any sane person would disable everything, antivirus, wireless, ethernet and close all other programs. Vegas records audio just fine even without all that, but if you are recording something crucial, why risk getting cracks or pops in your recording just because your ethernet or wireless card decided to check something ( as they do every minute or so ) and cause a spike in latency.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 10/4/2012, 5:26 AM
Well voodoo must work for me then.

Unhelpful combative attitudes won't help solve anything either.

geoff
Geoff_Wood wrote on 10/4/2012, 5:27 AM
Jeepers. No wonder you crash every few minutes. Just Firefox itself does(did) that for me.

I'd like to think that it is that I am more 'focussed'. But it probably doesn't wash.

geoff
Geoff_Wood wrote on 10/4/2012, 5:35 AM
"JHendrix... My sentiments EXACTLY. It's computer voodoo if you think an application should only run without crashing from a clean boot with nothing else running."

Just trying to eliminate that other apps might be the cause. I would have thought that would be the first thing a programmer would do. But hey, I'm not a programmer, so what would I know.

geoff
edenilson wrote on 10/4/2012, 5:39 AM
vegas pro 12 is the most stable until today. I agree that still has some bugs, like all other programs competing companies.
I'm sure it will be corrected.
But what I am outraged that people are never satisfied.
The very adobe ta bug fixes coming out every 3 days.
I can not stand staying updating photoshop, and after AI.
Now people are complaining know if Voes are with a bug, just report, not speaking ill stay.
I participated in the beta of Vegas Pro 12, like many here, too, strive to max and spent many feedbacks for SCS.
errors will always occur because each has a different system, hardware etc..

But look good. HELP and not getting SPEAKING ILL
Well said ... it is
paul_w wrote on 10/4/2012, 6:39 AM
Disabling GPU acceleration as a cure? is this a joke?
SCS do not know how to write proper multithreaded code with traps ie crashing. And their GPU calculations are still out. Still seeing errors in GPU assisted filters in v12 here - not fixed and never will be. They had a year to put this all right in v11 and never did. Absolute rubbish. Beta was a shambles. Video levels will never be put right, totally incorrect. Have been extremely patient with SCS, did my part, but they failed. And i know the next update will also because they had many chances to sort this out already over the past year+.

Not upgrading here. Done with Vegas [habitual upgrading without question]. Fed up with this circus, treading on egg shells will it crash are wont it. Dont have time for that. Sorry. Bye .

Paul.
JJKizak wrote on 10/4/2012, 7:06 AM
Multithreaded code? How does that work on an operating system that cannot truly do multithreading? Please show me how Windows opens two applications at the same time.
JJK
farss wrote on 10/4/2012, 7:38 AM
"Multithreaded code? How does that work on an operating system that cannot truly do multithreading?"

Vegas itself has been multithreaded for years. You might want to look up the meaning of "thread".

Bob.
JJKizak wrote on 10/4/2012, 8:57 AM
I probably would understand it better with flow charts and data directional arrows.
JJK
monoparadox wrote on 10/4/2012, 9:52 AM
A great number of crash issues with Windows for years has been video card drivers. It 's one of the upsides and downsides with Windows. The up: choice. The down: developers doing their own thing and continuous evolution creating new issues with all the variables.

Add in the constant tinkering with their systems that some users do -- visualize an on/off switch, multiply it by the millions and expect all of it to instantaneously work everytime with a dozen people telling them when to make their move.

Add the fact that with video cards where they are today, it's like inserting a computer within a computer and you get the picture.

HD video production is pushing your box to the limit (comparatively). It uses resources and generates heat the vast number of application never come close to achieiving.

You want to be on the bleeding edge . . . you're going to bleed.
VanLazarus wrote on 10/4/2012, 12:48 PM
deusx... I'm happy that your Vegas experience has been stable. And yes, I understand the need to be careful when recording audio on your PC. I rarely record audio with my PC and usually use camera's and external recording devices. I'll ask again: What type of editing do you do? If you edit SD video on one track, with simple in and out points, and a few titles here and there THEN your editing is much less demanding on Vegas and will hardly find the MANY issues I encounter. Do you perform 8 layers of compositing with Uncompressed AVI's with alpha layers? Do you use many third party filters like Boris Continium Complete for chromakeying and effects? Do you use Pro Titler or New Blue for complicated titling sequences? Do you edit 4k Red Scarlet footage? Do you typically edit 10 minute videos or have you worked on 3 hour productions? Do you use multicamera editing on a regular basis? Do you color grade your work? Have you tried exporting a Vegas 11 project to any other NLE? Do you use masks extensively? Do you use Neat Video denoiser to remove noise on low light video? There are so many areas and tools within Vegas. If you are doing the same type of edits with the same video format files, and the same tools/effects/plugins, then you can begin to compare your Vegas experience to mine.

Geoff Wood... I apologize if you feel my comments are combative. Just try to put yourself in my shoes instead of assuming that because you encounter few problems, I must be doing something wrong. Please read my comments to Deusx above regarding when editors can compare their experiences. I've invested lots of time and money in Sony software over the last 10 years. Vegas, an editor that I really like, has become more and more unstable for me. I see basic bugs in it linger FOR YEARS while new buggy features (GPU) are added. All the many hours I've spent helping SCS has accomplished NO improvement in stability. Yes, I've run Vegas by itself many times and it still has issues. Having people like yourself come along and tell me that it must be my machine or because I run multiple applications is VERY frustrating... especially when I have spent plenty of time trying to solve the problems, and none of the evidence points to my machine or applications. Firefox crashes Vegas for you? Very interesting. Please send me the communication with SCS where they admit that running Firefox in the background might crash Vegas.... or proof of any kind! A chart showing correlation between your Vegas crashes and Firefox use?

monoparadox... I agree that HD (or 4k!) editing pushes my machine, but,simply put, Vegas is not well written code. Another editor using Premiere CS6, just told me that he only had only 2 crashes in 6 months (while editing 4k Red footage)! He used the 30day trial for over 2 months by just keeping it running on his computer continuously! Is his computer special? Was he really lucky? Answer: No. The software that he was using didn't have as many bugs in it!

edenilson... I don't think I'm asking too much when expecting software that I buy to not crash or be glitchy on a daily basis. I just found 3 recreatable bugs in Vegas 'Pro' 12 in 2.5 hours. Does that sound like a product that was properly tested and debugged before it was sold to you?