Asio?

pwppch wrote on 4/17/2002, 9:08 AM

Just out of curiosity:
How is latency effecting your work currently?
How will lower latencies benfit your work in Vegas?

Peter

stakeoutstudios wrote on 4/17/2002, 11:59 AM

when adjusting EQ especially, the faster the system responds to the mouse movement, the quicker it is the find the offending frequency etc. It's nice to hear exactly what the eq does in real time. I can get fairly close to this, but could still be better. I don't believe ASIO would help however. Better sound card drivers full stop, whichever standard would however. I personally don't care which type of driver as long as it works. It would also be nice if input meters and output meters responded better...

I'm still desperately hoping for some description of MIDI sequencer in Vegas. ACID may get one... but that won't help me a lot as I record mostly rock bands, and want to use the sequencer for programmed extras. I need Vegas's multitrack facilities. At the moment I have to use Cubase and Gigastudio to finish off some songs... sigh... horrible!

Jason

klyon wrote on 4/17/2002, 1:13 PM

I understand your question, Peter. Vegas is well designed; vector mixing is very efficient. With direct monitoring (hardware) latency is hardly a question. But Webpuppy has hit a key point. Finding frequencies by sweeping an eq just doesn't work like it does in pro tools and this is important to mixing.
As for the midi question, have you considered supporting Rewire? I appreciate the fact that Vegas does one thing *extremely* well and doesn't attempt to do everything; that is part and parcel of it's elegance. But it would be even more efficient if it would include better connectivity to the specialized applications -- such as Reason -- that cover the other bases.

MarkusH wrote on 4/17/2002, 1:34 PM

Peter, the point is to be able to adjust effects in realtime, and additionally make use of external effect units (routing is audio track in vegas -> external fx -> another vegas audio track).
Also, a higher trackcount would be possible and more ressources free for effect plugins.

To comment to Klyon's post: I'm not asking for synths or midi in Vegas, nor do I find it good to have it in there, its a post production package, not a sequencer or composition package (there's already enough products that do the sequencing very well, vegas would have a hard time to compete with those in that respect).

-Markus

PipelineAudio wrote on 4/17/2002, 2:06 PM

Asio DM gives us the chance at a software emulation of auto input, especially helpful for those of us who use mixing consoles for tracking. I dont understand why there isnt a standard for sound cards to HARDWARE switch the inputs to the outpts. This would end most all of the latency problem, and take away most of the advantage Alsihad Stools has over vegas in terms of recording

pwppch wrote on 4/17/2002, 4:07 PM

>>It would also be nice if input meters and output meters responded better...
Define respond better?

pwppch wrote on 4/17/2002, 4:09 PM

Rewire is a very cool technology. I have looked at it extensively.

Peter

pwppch wrote on 4/17/2002, 4:14 PM

>>Peter, the point is to be able to adjust effects in realtime, and additionally make use of external effect units (routing is audio track in vegas -> external fx -> another vegas audio track).
<<
I could see that lower latencies _could_ improve fx process. It is however VERY dependent on the plugin. Some hate low latencies and can cause some plugs to consume more CPU.

>>
Also, a higher trackcount would be possible and more ressources free for effect plugins.
>>

pwppch wrote on 4/17/2002, 4:26 PM

Asio DM gives us the chance at a software emulation of auto input, especially helpful for those of us who use mixing consoles for tracking. I dont understand why there isnt a standard for sound cards to HARDWARE switch the inputs to the outpts. This would end most all of the latency problem, and take away most of the advantage Alsihad Stools has over vegas in terms of recording
<<
ASIO does define the ability to control how the hardware can route its inputs to its outputs for monitoring. From my experiance, most drivers don't implement it or worse, implement it wrong.

MarkusH wrote on 4/17/2002, 4:49 PM

All I know is that I can use around 100 tracks simultaneously in cubase using the hammerfall dsp asio driver. In Vegas I can't go past around 25 before crackling kicks in (while in asio I'm running at 1.5 ms).

-Markus

klyon wrote on 4/17/2002, 5:13 PM

Markus: I think you missed my point, which is the same as yours. Vegas doesn't need midi; doesn't need to be another "chameleon" program. It does what it does beautifully and that's what it should do. What I wrote about was *connectivity* to the programs (sequencers, softsynths, etc.) that do the other things.
Cheers.

MarkusH wrote on 4/17/2002, 5:21 PM

ya I did mean that (like rewire etc.). When running a post production package like PT/Nuendo (or Vegas, which is the budget alternative), you simply don't need or want something like rewire. A hella fast, stable and efficiently useable program is whats needed. If you didn't mean rewire but a file format.. then of course I agree.. something like OMF import/export would be very helpful.

-Markus

PipelineAudio wrote on 4/17/2002, 6:07 PM

Peter, in my case I am talking about siomething totally different than software input monitoring. What I am speaking of would necessarily have NO latency.
Just like a tape machine, Id like to see sound card manufacturers come up with a scheme so that while the signal is in record or armed for record, the very signal that cames into the card goes right to the soundcards output for that channel, while at the same time the signal is being recorded by the app. Note that you wouldnt hear the signal coming from the app, you would only hear the signal that was present at the soundcard's input. During punches, it would have to switch between hearing the signal already present on the disk, and the signal at the input. But shouldnt be much more different than playing muted and unmuted sections of the file.

I think this one isnt up to you guys, its up to the sound card manufacturers....soundscape's mixtreme PCI card already has the facilities to do this but there isnt a finished way to implement it in software.

A lot of us old tapeheads would very much like to work this way, and the option would be nice.

Adding fx to the input is something that comes from software montoring, which I wouldnt care too much for in tracking...

How does RME ZLM work? is it a hardware setup or is it too going thru then back out the host app ?

Rednroll wrote on 4/17/2002, 11:55 PM

PipelineAudio wrote on 4/18/2002, 12:13 AM

If its working for you great. Some of us have other ways of working that we are used to.

Monitoring off the input in the console is not so fun for me. In most cases that would mean hearing bioth the new audio and the previously recorded audio. Not so good for punching in.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Just because one person has one way of weorking, that doesnt mean that sf shouldnt continue to improve its products.

pwppch wrote on 4/18/2002, 12:21 AM

Tape type monitoring would be cool. Again, ASIO can support this mode if the drivers expose it correctly. The Mixstreme hardware does infact. So do the Frontier design cards and MOTU hardware.

There are UI issues on the app side that are involved, though both of these cards and their drivers permit the routing to be setup in their control pannel or apps.

Peter

Rednroll wrote on 4/18/2002, 1:09 AM

PipelineAudio wrote on 4/18/2002, 1:47 AM

What valid points did I miss? Some of us like to work with a more traditional monitoring style. You always jump in with your arrogant ands mostly wrong BS. Like the one about me never using a mixing console, or the one about me not even having a mixing console.

All you can do is criticize. And the part thats really bad, isnt the insulting me, I could care less. The truth is, you and DSE are holding up progress.
I am INCOMPETENT because I like auto input?
go to hell

the problem is that SF may be taking cues from idiots like you and may honestly belive that there is no need to continue in a forward direction, and concentrate elsewhere.

You have your ways you like to do things, that doesnt mean my ways are incompetent, only that you are an intolerant, incompetent biggot and all knowing all seing king $#@! of turd hill.

"I would rather see Sonic Foundry NOT wasting time developing features for incompitent engineers and spend more time on features like external hardware control, or making it so I can use my Auto-tune plugin on Vocals"

Gee, so youre not incompetent because you feel the need for external hardware control, which I have asked for a zillion times ( and been insulted for), but Im incompetent because I need auto input

What a jerk

I suppose I am an idiot for being glad that vegas finally has phase switches?
King you just goes to sound forge to flip the phase right?

I am an idiot for being happy that I can burn Masterlink ready CD's right? Must be DATS are still around, why do anything new?

I am an idiot for being glad Vegas has a master buss right?

I am incompetent because Vegas' fx inserts are post fader right ?
King you was so smart that you assumed they were pre and insulted me for it

I am an incompetent grunt because I have a studio partner like you said.

Stop cluttering the SF forums with hurt and try putting in some help instead.

And hey, ANYtime you want, point me to a publishing site so we can compare LEGIT credits, since you are so great. No really

DougHamm wrote on 4/18/2002, 11:56 AM

You know, if you two didn't keep bringing up valid and interesting points I'd have turned my ignore filter on a long time ago for the both of you. It's too bad you don't have the same appreciation for each other. You could be the Siskel and Ebert of audio engineering if your first instincts weren't to kill each other. :-)

-Doug

Rednroll wrote on 4/18/2002, 4:22 PM

So if Pro Tools or another app has ASIO and Auto Input, and you feel Vegas not having this feature is hindering the way you work and productivity....then why did you decide to use Vegas? I decided to use Vegas, because it works quite well with my method of working. I'm not saying that this is the same for everyone, but at least I'm smart enough to buy a hammer, when the tool I need is a hammer, and not buy a screw driver and then cry to the screwdriver company, that you can't pound in nails. So, I'm the idiot?

PipelineAudio wrote on 4/18/2002, 5:30 PM

Why did you buy Vegas if theres no hardware control?

Thats what I thought

Goddess wrote on 4/19/2002, 12:30 AM

IMHO RedNRoll,Yes you are the idiot! Time and time again I have read your nasty replies on this forum. I dont know whether you are just a drama queen that is striving for attention or what. Not only that, you are also a MEGA HYPOCRITE! You are always asking for improvements but when someone else suggests them you question their reasons for purchasing Vegas? That's ridiculous. You also question their 'competency' (you would be the incompetent one since you cant even spell incompetent) I havent seen you at the Grammy's lately, I guess you arent as great as you proclaim you are! Why do you do that anyway? Have you convinced yourself that you are something super special? You rip into people's mixing practices without even hearing anything they've done. The way you continue yakking on about how great you are and how fabulous your mixing equipment is makes me think maybe its not too special. Maybe you boast too much? Have you ever asked Pipeline what equipment he has? Probably not. You are just a trouble maker, constantly trying to run down people you are threatened by. Pipeline, what equipment do you have? What bands do you have experience with? I am sure these are valid questions RednRoll should have asked BEFORE he started running his fingers with insults. Btw RednRoll what equipment do you have? Which bands have you worked with? Are there any samples of your wonderfully skilled mixing available on the web? I am trembling in anticipation of your response!

JoeD wrote on 4/19/2002, 4:25 AM

PipelineAudio wrote on 4/19/2002, 9:56 AM

Now that is finally it...
Does your dumb azz really think I started engineering two years ago? Maybe I started using VEGAS two years ago or whenever the first Beta came out.
But you are WAY WAY WAY WAY off

Gee, Dave Mustaine/Lee Ving's MD-45 album came out in 1996, and hey THERE"S MY NAME!
Yeah I started engineering with a 1995 copy of vegas right???
Get a grip

"It's the engineers, who don't boast about their credentials, who are really the good engineers. It's the bad one's who don't do much more than make coffee, who have to boast about their credentials, because they're insecure about their ability.

"

you threw the names, I responded only as I could hope it would get through your dense head that I may possibly know what I am doing. I tried to get your closed minded ignorant azz to go take a look before you made an idiot of yourself insulting me.

Maybe a while back I may have asked you questions
This is because if I dont know something, I ASK
does that make me a small person to seek answers?
As for what equipment I may or may not have at the moment (NOT that it matters, MANY on this forum HAVE shown themselves yto do good work with just a PC and a sound card), and see if it passes you Mr. Elite, go look at

www.studiozpro.com

I showed you mine ( for the umpteenth time)
now show me yours.

I dont insult people for not having equipment and I dont use gear as male organ extensions. But if you take a look at that gear list, I think theres more than enough good there.

And as for me never seeing a console before:
AGAIN search my name and you will see that I have REBUILT and modded Neve's and Tridents for some people you may have heard of. I started this journey mostly as a tech and worked as an engineer whenever there was a chance. I am fluent on SSL G Series, Neve's Necam 96 and Flying Faders equipped consoles, be they 5104'2 or 8108's or VR's, through tridents with Uptown automation, to whatever else.

Just so you have some facts

But what does that have to do with being able to ask questions without getting insulted?