Audio cuts in and out with VMS 10


jonski wrote on 8/12/2010, 10:50 AM
OK, this has gone on TOOO long now - and it's not even acknowledged in "known issues".

Time to start the procedure on getting my money back. I think this is going to be interesting...
VidExotic wrote on 8/12/2010, 7:52 PM
I just logged the same audio stutter/skip problem with tech support after installing this software today. I have the Samsung HMX-H200, which I am very pleased with except for the weird audio stutter issue in VMS 10. I probably would not have purchased this version of the software if I had known this was going to be a problem. Please don't leave us all hanging out to dry, Sony.
Ivan Lietaert wrote on 8/12/2010, 11:09 PM
@videxotic: Did you increase your audio buffers in 'preferences'?
drguitar0001 wrote on 8/13/2010, 1:32 PM
Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with the audio buffers. For some reason, VMS 10 does not play nice with the Mpeg files that the Samsung HMX-H200 creates. What makes this so frustrating is that the earlier versions of VMS work fine with the Samsung files.... very curious...
VidExotic wrote on 8/13/2010, 3:56 PM
It seems much more likely to be some sort of audio stream incompatibility in Vegas or a failure to properly interpret the a/v parameters in the file. Vegas seems to be confused and attempting to play back audio at a 30fps sync even though it's rendering 60P footage. Sony seems to have acknowledged that it is a problem beyond config settings, so lots of unhappy Samsung camera users exist until it gets patched.
VidExotic wrote on 8/13/2010, 5:45 PM
OK, I found a very fast workaround, finally... you need to download AVIDEMUX, which is a free program.

This will allow you to recode the audio, without recoding any video. For some reason during the following process the container/wrapper gets replaced with the basic industry standard version. Here are the steps:

1. Install AVIDEMUX, then open the program
2. On the format drop down button select "MP4," leave the other buttons on their default "copy" setting
3. Click FILE -> OPEN and select your clip to rewrap
4. Click NO on dialog box (unless you have a problem with crashing, I did not)
5. Click YES on rebuild frame dialog box
6. Click the SAVE VIDEO button up top (NOT the save project button)
7. Remember to add .MP4 to the file name you type in

I found that a 1 minute 720P clip took only 1/2 second to rewrap. There is absolutely no quality change at all and it loads into Vegas and runs like a champ!! This extra step should get things running until Sony finishes a patch :)
drguitar0001 wrote on 8/14/2010, 1:44 PM
I tried the program you suggested with limited results. When I process the video precisely as you state, the audio is fine when i pull it into VMS 10, but them VMS 10 stutters with the video. In addition, longer videos slowly become out of sync with the audio after they are processed with AVIDEMUX.

I will continue to try different settings in AVIDEMUX to see if I can get it to work properly. Obviously, it would be better if VMS 10 just worked properly with the Mpeg 4 files the Samsung camcorder produces. Even if AVIDEMUX can process and save the large files in a minute or two, that is still an extra step in what should be a simple process.
VidExotic wrote on 8/15/2010, 11:14 AM
Make sure you select NO on the first dialog box, otherwise you may "lose frame accuracy." That is probably why your losing audio sync on longer files. The video will not play back perfectly smooth unless you have a very fast machine (its highly compressed MP4), you should use the pre-render shift+b feature after selecting the loop, to see perfect playback in Vegas.
drguitar0001 wrote on 8/15/2010, 11:50 AM
Yep, I chose "no" in the first dialog box. And I believe I have a decently fast machine:

Dell Studio XPS 435
Core i7 920
6gig ram
2 large SATA harddrives running at 7200
Realtek HD Audio ALC888s chip
ATI 4870 video card

The interesting thing is that the video play fine but the audio is stuttering BEFORE running the file through AVIDEMUX. AFTER running the file through AVIDEMUX, the audio is fine, but the video stutters and slowly goes out of sync.

Pretty cool huh?

Any other thoughts?
jonski wrote on 9/14/2010, 10:07 AM
I'm really annoyed now. Back in June, Sony support added the following to my ticket:
"we have identified this issue in the software, and we are working to resolve it as quickly as possible".
That was June. We're not midway through September. I thought I'd go and check on the ticket. They've closed it, marked it as resolved, and there's no way to open it again.
This is SO not solved! When there's a solution, it's solved. Not before.

I suggest everyone with a ticket checks the status and makes sure they haven't pulled this trick on you, too.
I've created another ticket demanding they re-open the original and do not mark it as solved until it is solved.
I mean, wtf; I'd have been fired if I'd done that.

TOG62 wrote on 9/14/2010, 11:41 AM
The interesting thing is that the video play fine but the audio is stuttering BEFORE running the file through AVIDEMUX. AFTER running the file through AVIDEMUX, the audio is fine, but the video stutters and slowly goes out of sync.

Would it be possible to use the original video with the AVIDEMUXed audio?
KenJ62 wrote on 9/14/2010, 6:25 PM
Well, this is an interesting long topic I hadn't seen before. I use HDV files now which are mpeg-2 but sometimes VMS chokes on a clip (event). I recently finished a wedding video and the main one hour tape had a known glitch one minute in from the beginning. I could not get VMS10 to stay on its feet long enough to deal with the bad section of about 90 frames. The only way I could recover this tape of the main event was to load it into Avidemux and save it to two different files, eliminating the glitched part.

It is apparent to me that mpeg files have an inherent weakness in that a small glitch will cause instability. If I have minor problems with instability, once I rendered out my timeline to a new file and either replace the original or work in a new iteration of the same project VMS becomes very stable and reliable.

I can say without equivocation that Vegas really likes files IT creates itself. And it occurs to me that there are a number of variations of mpeg-4 (GOP structure, etc). Vegas seems to like a particular variation of mpeg-4 and will probably work quite well once our mpeg-4 files are created the way it likes it.
drguitar0001 wrote on 9/14/2010, 7:43 PM
Jonski: They marked my ticket resolved too the same week I filed it. In addition, I wrote another ticket about this and they marked that one resolved also even though they did not have an answer for me. If you check your email, they tell you that they are going to close your ticket if you do not respond within a certain time (48 hours?). The problem is that you can respond and they do not respond and still they close it. Neat trick huh?

TOG62: I found a way around the problem, I use SUPER to take the audio from the video and change it to MP3. THen I import the video into VMS 10 and remove the original audio that is messed up and replace it with the SUPER MP3 file and group it with the original video. This can get quite ugly when working with lots of short clips, but it is the only way to use VMS 10 at this point for me.

KenJ62: You are probably right. My question is why does VMS 8 and VMS 9 work fine with the Mpeg 4 files produced by the Samsung Camcorder, but VMS 10 (which is supposed to be a superior program for working with H.264 files) have such a difficult time with them? What changed to cause the new VMS 10 to not work properly with files the earlier iterations of VMS could handle? It is a strange situation which has me wondering who is driving the Sony software development bus.
KenJ62 wrote on 9/14/2010, 8:51 PM
I cannot explain the inconsistancy. Quoting from CamcorderInfo, Samsung is one of the few manufacturers that does not use the AVCHD compression system for recording HD video. The HMX-H200 records using the MPEG-4 H.264 codec instead. MPEG-4 H.264 is similar to AVCHD compression (they use the same codecs), but it doesn't include all of the extra information that is part of AVCHD. That seems like inconsistent information to me.

You can read about it here:
drguitar0001 wrote on 9/15/2010, 7:52 PM
From what I understand (which is often very little), AVCHD is an "extended or enhanced" form of the H.264/MPEG-4 codec. In other words, H.264 came first and Sony/Panasonic adopted the format and added various application features/constraints to make the H.264 codec bend to their liking and renaming it AVCHD. The original codec H.264/MPEG-4 part 10, is the one used by Samsung and is considered "generic" since it does not include all the extras dropped on it by Sony and Panasonic.

Which brings up questions like, "Why would the codec that Sony built their version on not work in VMS if it is actually the original form of the codec?" and "What would be the reason Sony would redesign a working codec so that their software will not read it properly?".

If I worked at Sony, I would be asking these questions of the software and codec designers. It may be a case of "follow the money"...
Perry Diels wrote on 9/15/2010, 8:14 PM
I'm consulting this forum to find information on the exact same problem. Here it is with a Samsung HMX-H205 (which is the same family). The audio stuttering is not only audible but also visible in the created wave file when importing into Vegas. Hence this confirms once again that the problem has nothing to do with a playback condition and buffer settings or whatsoever are not relevant. The problem is with importing the files. Note however that I see the exact same problem with Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 9 and even with Vegas PRO 9 (on different computers). Perhaps Samsung does something weird with their camcorder file formats, but on the other hand these files play perfect with for example Windows Media Player (Windows 7 version with built-in H.264 support) and other applications. For this reason I agree that Sony "should" make an upgrade soon. If not they should clearly state in their marketing materials (and on the VMS boxed product) that h.264 in Vegas products is NOT compatible with some camcorders (such as Samsung). h.264/AVCHD compatibility should be transparent all the way.

Working with files from my Panasonic HDC-SD66 is no problem.
drguitar0001 wrote on 9/15/2010, 9:12 PM
I have VMS 8 platinum ( and nearly every version before all the way to 1) and the Samsung file imports without any audio problems. In addition, another member of this forum stated that they can import Samsung files without incident to VMS 9. I cannot confirm this since I do not own VMS 9, but if you say they do not work in VMS 9, I believe you. Somewhere along the way, Sony made some sort of change for the worse in the way VMS reads the H.264 codec between version 8 and 10.
Kevinlee wrote on 10/13/2010, 1:54 PM
I have VMS 9 'Platinum' and just recently bought a Samsung H204. The audio worked fine but the video stutters severely. I am using the trial version of 10 'Platinum' and am experiencing the same audio stutter. It would appear this audio issue started with version 10.
drguitar0001 wrote on 10/14/2010, 3:43 PM
How do you like the Samsung camcorder? I love mine... easy to use, light weight, nice high res video... cheap as dirt ( a couple of yards of clean top soil...)