Well I 'm using 5 different xvid files for that project, and I'm looking for a template that I will use every time I need to convert xvid (and also mkv) files to an intermediate format suitable for smooth editing in vegas. So no need to focus on these particular files.
Until now I was using extracts from youtube videos and had no problem to use them in vegas. This just changed since now I'm also using extracts from files from torrents. Vegas doesn't fully supports formats from files from torrents.

Seems that your "originals" already are copies from copies, I don't understand your concerns about quality...

@Former user
I can't see any x264 in the charts. Why is it so complicated ? I just need the format, then template, then settings in the "customize template" popping windows, that's all I'm asking for. I can't determinate settings by myself. I'm not much of a geek.

@3POINT
Because I don't want loose anymore quality, and by the way, some are 1080p so the quality isn't always bad.

1080p doesn't say anything about quality. Even 1080p can look like 360p. I have no further comments to this post.

@3POINT
Yes but not only are they 1080p, they also look fine. Well, thanks to you for trying anyway. I hope I get an answer that clearly fits my particular needs instead of infinite debates and knowledge display. Not that it's uninteresting, quite the contrary, but right now I need some concrete settings.

@Former user
I can't see any x264 in the charts. Why is it so complicated ? I just need the format, then template, then settings in the "customize template" popping windows, that's all I'm asking for. I can't determinate settings by myself. I'm not much of a geek.

Its all there, ffmpeg uses x264 ... https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/H.264

The tables gives you a lot of useful information, based on the sources data rate and file size. For example you can see the very clear correlation between quality and data rate, thats why I also included the data rates and file sizes of the rendered output files.

Within VP you won’t find a render template for x264, but it’s a good reference (and that's one reason I included it) to all of the other output files that were all created using VP render templates in the 2 tables.

For example, if you decided that an SSIM value of say x was acceptable to you, then if any of the file types in the table was something that you could work with, within VP, then by matching the data rates (all uhd) you'd get pretty close to your goal without having to do your own ffmpeg ssim testing.

If you want to confirm, then just download a static build of ffmpeg and run your source and output file using the code included in the tables.

It's complicated because there is no ONE SIZE FITS ALL when it comes to compression. There is always a tradeoff depending upon your source material, your final delivery and your own personal viewpoint. I personally would not make any intermediates that are compressed. I always make uncompressed, or near uncompressed intermediates. I have plenty of disk space and find that uncompressed always renders faster than any compressed format. Other people don't mind using visually lossless compression for intermediates. Some people use video with a lot of movement, others are talking heads. Compression affects each differently. Some make fast edits, others lingering long shots. Again, compression plays a role in the final outcome. You are wanting a black/white answer and there is none. Experiment, learn and determine what fits your needs. You have had great input in this thread, go forth and multiply.

Well as long as it reads well in vegas preview I don't mind uncompressed to render my intermediary file. The file will be only 10 minutes long maximum anyway.

I just didn't know there was something such as "uncompressed", my understanding was that any format/template applied some kind of compression.

I just want that even the most trained eye couldn't tell the difference between the intermediate and the original files. And I want to assume that my original files have the best quality even if it's not the case.

@Marty111 

Some intermediates and a lossless compressed example, MagicYUV, it can be purchased for $14. Install it and it’ll appear in VP, same as any other render template.

The reason MagicYUV doesn’t appear at the top is possibly margin of error in quality calculations.

I guess @Marty111 want to convert xvid to lossless/uncompressed from external program and next import output in Vegas to edit.

@Former user Rendered files must be crazy huge even unusable with this format as it's not even included in Vegas. Doesn't look like much of an option. Rednroll said that passed a certain bit rate there are no difference even to the most trained eyes.

@Sylk Yes, only the conversion will take place in Vegas, not with an external program. And I don't mind if it's compressed provided that the most trained eye couldn't tell the difference between original and copy if a file with the best quality ever was converted to this intermediary file.

I will need two templates, one for 720p and a second one for 1080p. I think what I'm asking for is quite simple.

Like I said before, there are no rules for.
I can give you the settings I use for my projects, but they are as normal other for your projects because of the used hardware, type of sourcefiles and players where to play the export, also with it its own settings.
You have you try in your situation how high of low your bitrate is good enough.
I always use for my situation max. 15 and min. 10 MB bitrate with the Magix AVC codec for FHD 50p, but thats for me only.
 

Oh wait... The bit rate is probably different depending on frame rate. So I'll need templates for
1080p 30fps, and 720p 30fps. (It shouldn't hurt a 23fps video to have the optimal frame rate of a 30fps video, the bigger the better.)
I won't use frame rates above 30, none of the files I used were ever above 30.

@j-v I don't want to have to try each time new settings, I use so many different files all the time, it would be a hassle.

”Rendered files must be crazy huge even unusable with this format as it's not even included in Vegas. Doesn't look like much of an option. Rednroll said that passed a certain bit rate there are no difference even to the most trained eyes.”

I inferred from this post ... “Well as long as it reads well in vegas preview I don't mind uncompressed to render my intermediary file. The file will be only 10 minutes long maximum anyway.“

How would an uncompressed file be anything but enormous? Contradictions are beginning to creep into your posts, may I suggest the following...
 

@Marty111 Just trying to help, I guess I didn’t pick on that rule, not 10x file size. Why don’t you make it easy on yourself and everyone else by laying out a concise list of what's acceptable to you to achieve your end result, step by step. Make it clear to users that are spending their time and effort to help you by laying down as precise as possible ground rules. That way you don’t have to keep repeating it across several posts, use bullet points to refer users to, so removing any ambiguity that might otherwise creep in.

You can update your first post in this thread with the list as well as posting here.

@Former user You're right, let's recap :

Some video codecs / formats such as xvid and mkv aren't suited for a smooth editing experience in Vegas. So I need two templates for my everyday intermediary renders : I will use vegas to cut out the extracts I need in the original files, then put them on a single track if they all have the same frame rate, or on several tracks if they don't (one track for each frame rate), render this (or these) track(s) into some template I can smoothly edit on (with effects and all) in Vegas 15 and 17 with my powerful computer.

I don't want to have to set each time new bit rate and settings, depending on source files, because I use so many different files all the time, that it would be a hassle.
So I need figures and settings for two templates that I always will be using, all the time, with all my files. I will assume that each of my source file have the best quality ever (even if most of the time it won't be true) and will swear before all Gods not to compromise their quality.

So :

• One template for 720p 30fps. A second one for 1080p 30fps.
• I won't be using any file with a higher than 30 frame rate.
• I won't be using any file with a higher than 1080p resolution.
• No compromise on quality.
• Yet I don't want an absurdly high bit rate and settings to the point the converted file is 10 times the size of its original and even the most trained eye can't tell the smallest difference between the two even after trying hard.
  
  If something is ambiguous in this recap, if something isn't clear as crystal, please tell me, and I will gladly edit this post. ( And thanks to each of you, of course, for taking your time to help ).

@Marty111 Way to go. For my part I can’t think of anything more than the tables I posted. If you can find something in them that’s acceptable then base your resulting templates around them, as I previously explained. If not then no doubt someone else will come up with the goods, best of luck.

@Former user If only your tables could translate themselves into concrete templates. I don't know what to do with them as such :/

One template for 720p 30fps. A second one for 1080p 30fps.

Again my question: What's wrong with the templates already present in Vegas for this purpose?

@Former user If only your tables could translate themselves into concrete templates. I don't know what to do with them as such :/

 

Thats where you @Marty111 come in ... my own quote... “For example, if you decided that an SSIM value of say x was acceptable to you, then if any of the file types in the table was something that you could work with, within VP, then by matching the data rates (all uhd) you'd get pretty close to your goal without having to do your own ffmpeg ssim testing.”

If you can make available for download, say dropBox, a short sample, as source, tell me what ssim value is acceptable to you, then I'll have a go at making a VP template to match your ssim value. Of course specify which codec, frame rate, resolution, Magix Intermediate, Magix Avc, etc etc.

One template for 720p 30fps. A second one for 1080p 30fps.

Again my question: What's wrong with the templates already present in Vegas for this purpose?

Sure if they fit all my requirements, Do they ? I have no clue

@Former user Ok, so all I need to do I is to follow Rednroll's rule :

• "It's been found that "optimal" quality for modern encoders ( including x265) is at SSIM 0.995, the maximum reasonable quality without throwing LOTS of bits at it."
• I choose for instance xavc-I because it reaches a ssim superior to 0.995 with the smallest bitrate. I pick its value that is a bit rate of 234.000, put in in my template, and then I'm done ?

What about different frame-rates and resolutions?
Edit : Ok these tables are for uhd, so roughly I divide by 4 for 1080p, but no mention is made of frame-rate.
 

"If you can make available for download, say dropBox, a short sample, as source, tell me what ssim value is acceptable to you, then I'll have a go at making a VP template to match your ssim value. Of course specify which codec, frame rate, resolution, Magix Intermediate, Magix Avc, etc etc."

As I said in the recap, I don't want to determine each time new bit rate and settings, depending on source files I'll through at the template, because I use so many different files all the time, that it would be a hassle. It need a template that works with any source file I will through at it.

@Marty111 TBH once you start using intermediates your good to go. From my tables the XAVC-I has a lower file size than the other intermediates but I'm pretty sure it’ll get you there.

Since it’s at the lower end of yout target ssim of .995 maybe choose one of the intermediates above Xavc-I.

Maybe 422 LT?

”but no mention is made of frame-rate.” 25fps, I should update.

@Marty111 Of course the UHD doesn’t translate directly to your lower FHD etc.

I did a very quick test using a 9s FHD 25fps clip.

ffmpeg “SSIM ALL” Results...

XAVC-I ...... 0.983

Intermediate 422 ....... 0.989

Intermediate 422 HQ ..... 0.994

The 422 HQ weighed in at 4.86 times larger in size.

Is 25fps 1080p Xavc-I with a 58500 bit rate (234.000 / 4) usually easy to work with and preview in Vegas ?
I will have to raise that bitrate for 1080p 30fps : 58500*30 / 25 = 70200

And divide that by 2.25 (if i'm right) for 720p 30fps : 70200 / 2.25 = 31200

If trusting Rednroll and your table, then 422LT takes 50% more disk place for nothing. I'll see, maybe I will choose it if files aren't too big.