Frogger,
Your specs shown seem a tad light in ram for VP10. You should however be OK editing SD.
Maybe you should trial ‘gearshift’ from Vasst. My machine is good for HDV but struggles with AVCHD files. I am trialling Gearshift and so far it looks good. I can edit in SD and do my final render from either the original source or from the rather larger intermediate avi files.
I’m retired now, so no deadlines to meet. If the trial continues successfully I may be able to avoid upgrading my pc for a while yet. Final rendering may take time but I’m more than happy to render overnight.
Whichever way you finally go good luck.
Geoff

Guess frogger went to play on the interstate. His rants will not be missed.

Grazie and all,

Here's are the system details I can give while in the midst of an editing deadline:
Win 7 64 Ultimate
core i7 920 2.66 (not overclocked)
Asus p6T deluxe MB (not v2)
nVidea quadro FX1800
6GB Corsair 12800 DDR3 (can't remember the timings offhand, but the best I could get last year that matched MB specs)
Corsair CMPSU-750TX 750W PS
GRAID 2TB
2 -WD Velociraptor 10k SATA 600GB (1boot, 1 for add. SD video storage)
1- Hitachi Deskstar 500GB (audio and .veg projects)
AJA Kona LHi
Pioneer internal BR burner ( Ithink the model number is in my system specs)

I am using Vegas 10a 64 and 32 (I have every update standing by but haven't had enough problems to risk switching versions in the midst of a documentary edit)
The only other SW I have on this machine are Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects CS4, DVDA, Virtual Dub, Imageburn and Backup4All Pro. No email client, Firefox is there but only for FireFTP to upload for clients.

In veg preferences I have 0 Ram preview and 2 rendering threads set. Thumbnails and labels turned off. If I'm working in HD and want to preview on broadcast monitor I turn off aspect correction and rescale to preview window on the Vegas monitor. (both seem to help even if I turn off the preview window when monitoring externally)

And in the preview device preferences I unclick "use project output rotation setting." Maybe it's just because of the Kona board, but this made a HUGE difference in my real-time monitoring performance.

I know there are several more configuration tricks I picked up from this forum that I'll have to dig into to remember, but I think these were the ones that made the biggest difference.

And from my long past in linear editing, I try to be aware of where my source footage is coming from - i.e. in my current project I have a 720p uncompressed base spot coming from the GRAID, I have SD location tags on the WD Raptor. I'm using color correction and color curves on the 720p footage and have 3 media generators producing letterbox and text throughout the spot. Project pixel setting is 32-float- video levels. I can run the spot in real time, dissolve to tag and monitoring stays in Best-Full.

I know this is a light load compared to those who are trying to do multiple effects to multiple streams of 1080 DSLR footage, but this is typical broadcast spot work. I also have an in-progress documentary using AVCHD from the AF-100 and I can easily work with this 1080p 24f footage with color curves active and perform short dissolves without my preview going below Best- half. Long dissolves will knock it lower. Vegas seems to like the AF-100 footage better than other AVCHD I've tried, but that's one reason I went with it.

Maybe this type of performance isn't enough for what others are expecting, but I'm thrilled with it for my work. I don't expect to see any more than this in real time for the price of playing with Vegas.

Biggest workarounds for me - V10 32bit processes will remain in memory after exiting the program. Weird things can happen if you don't manually shut down the processes before opening another program, especially Vegas 64 bit. Don't see this memory hogging with 64 bit version. And when rendering to WMV in 64 bit, sometimes video and audio tracks will turn themselves on and off during the render. This has not happened when rendering to other formats and only when media generators are used in the project. 32 bit will render them fine.

I'll be happy to add more when I have more time if there's an interest.

Best,
Larry

And one thing I am realizing after looking through recent posts is the vast difference in needs of the various users. In my world dealing with mostly uncompressed footage,,data throughput has generally been the bottleneck, not CPU power. If I'm going to do a key, effect, or deep color correction my habit is to take the footage to Digital Fusion or After Effects. Just the way I've learned over the years. There's never been an editing system that I expected to do all of it.

If I was using the highly compressed 1080 codecs that a lot of prosumer gear generates, plus wanting to key, composite and color correct in one interface in real-time, then I'd need and expect some heavy-duty software. And hardware.

So I still would like to see a separation of a "pro" and "prosumer" version of Vegas. But I now think the pro version should be CHEAPER, because it doesn't need to work as hard. Just give us some useful EDL tools. ;-)

Best,
Larry

While this might be viewed as combative...

Buh bye.

I worked for Serif years ago, and I mean YEARS ago when it was famous for being the "Adobe Pagemaker Killer" as voted by PC Mag. Their apps are ok, always have been, but they are NOT pro tools.

Every software interacts differently with the OS, hardware and, yes, the user.

I use VP10, works exactly the way I want it... and I have used Avid, Canopus, Premier Pro.. and VP outperforms them all.

But if it doesn't work for you, so be it.

There are a couple of things that make such a difference in the experience with a lower powered (in my case an Intel Core2Duo) machine.

1/ If you are not using HDV or mini DV, use an intermediate like Cineform or .mxf, A dual core machine running an intermediate will run circles around a faster processor working with AVCHD.

2/ Set your deinterlace method to interpolate rather than blend fields. I don't know why but this makes a huge difference on previewing. If you want a blend fields deinterlace (though I don't know why you would want to), just set it back to that when you render.

3/ Cut first, add color correction and filters later. If you are working with Cineform, try FirstLight instead of Vegas's color correction tools. It's way more CPU friendly.

4/ When you can, smart-render. Smart-renders are so fast and high quality, I set my workflow around them. I use picture profiles on my Z7 rather than doing color correction during the edit process whenever I can. It's a different workflow, but my clients love how fast I turn things around. Right now i have one client who's decided to give me the work he used to farm out to a larger studio because I turn things around so much faster.

I use picture profiles on my Z7 rather than doing color correction during the edit process whenever I can.

Laurence -- what are picture profiles?

Kimberly,

Picture profiles can be set on some higher-end cameras to mimic certain things - other cameras - SONY PD170s, DSR-XXXs - special looks such as old film stock, etc.

Settings like gamma, knee, colour temp - the list can be as longs your arm.

Tom

I used to always use a bit of a color correction recipe on pretty much everything I shot. I would intensify the color a little, maybe a hair more saturation. Now I just shoot with this picture profile and i don't have to do that anymore. By shooting this way, my previews are smoother and I can smart-render. Very cool.

On the DSLR I don't really have anything like the picture profiles, but I have to convert to an intermediate anyway, but as I go I am going to be tweaking the cRGB to sRGB preset that I use when I make the intermediates which will accomplish something similar.

Laurence,

I use an S270 .. would be curious as to what 'special look' you might have cooked up. I expect the pictures profiles can be shared between the S270 and the Z7....

:-)

Tom

Tom, are you offering to share your Profiles?

Grazie

Don't have any personally created ones. I have experimented with the ones that are shipped... that's why I asked... :-(
Tom

this profile thing's rather interesting.... will start a new thread.....

Well, I'm late to the party here and let me get the self-serving part out of the way first:

The HappyFriar wrote: Since you're not using Vegas any more why not transfer your licenses over to Soniclight? He wants a copy of V10 anyway. He says he can't afford it -

Thanks for that, most kind.
Actually one person did offer but hasn't gotten back to me, so maybe it was just a passing thought.
I'll survive.
_________________________________


OK, on to other stuff...

Derm wrote: I don't have an axe to grind but here is my experience. I just upgraded from a powerful XP system to Win 7 64bit with 12gb ram and advanced video card.Preview is still terrible making sync ridiculous. and still horribly jerky transitions.

First, I still use 8c. I didn't go from a powerful XP (actually an dinosaur, Pentium D 2.8 XP Home 32 bit) but also am on Win7 64-bit, AMD 6-core 3.2 ghz (couldn't afford even amid-range i7, so first non-Intel system ever). Some suggested I stick to 8c and not use 8.1 because the latter was the first and rather buggy attempt by Sony to go 64 bit.

I haven't done much editing for I'm still kind of in re-organization mode, but I noticed something weird: some of my .avi (but not most) and all of my .mov show "Media Offline" in my tracks now -- even though the Project Media names are not grayed out. And, even when I manually replace, same thing. After Vegas bugged me to install Quicktime, I did. Still black, off-line .mov events.

In short, I've got some holes in my projects and I don't know if it is across all or just some.

Q:

Thanks.
_________________________________

Last, on the long good-bye of Frogger777.

At first I thought it was another troll post -- as all of us, I've seen such over the last 6 or so years I've been here. But the guy's been here as long as I have with posts to prove it unlike actual trolls, and so while I agree on "What's the point to sound the trumpets?" over it, I understand software frustration too.

And at least, his final sign-off was civilized.
And true to his word, he never returned to post anything in this thread.

I don't really have a choice -- I too came from Pinnacle 8 and for all of the overall industry looking-down-their-noses at Vegas -- and Vegas's problems, I can't afford any NLE that can do as much as Vegas can. It's not as slick and sexy as others, but it's a workhorse.

And for that, I'm grateful.
Not to mention all the help I've been fortunate to get from you real pros here.

Freakin' priceless.

So farewell, Frogger, may ye be content in thy life and editing henceforth.
But I'm stickin' with Vegas, dude, whatever version I have.

I'm still using my trusty old Word 97 on Win7.

Sorry, Sonic, can you make it very simply for me:

1) What OS are you using?

2) What version and build of Vegas are you using?

3) What CPU and RAM are you using?

4) What s/w are you running with Vegas? Anti virus, anything sticking in RAM?

Cheers

Grazie

>"I'm still using my trusty old Word 97 on Win7. "

Philip, that's a great example of what can happen with software. To try and sell more product, they keep producing new versions ( I have 1997 and 2003 versions of MS Office), when the previous version already does everything that most of us would ever need, and in fact the newer versions get so complicated that they become harder and harder to use, with features that nobody wants. I sometimes get sent .docx files which I can't open in my MSWord, but thankfully Open Office comes to the rescue!

Thankfully Vegas does not do this - the new features are (generally) in response to new technology and needs, but a document is a document is a document and all I want to do is to put words between margins etc.

(If you're still reading this thread, Frogger, sorry to encroach on your lily pad and good luck ....)

Peter

Grazie, below is a copy of my sys specs that are here at my profile with some additional info in ().

Windows Version: 7 64-bit - (Home Premium)
RAM: Above 1gb - (actually 16 Gb.)
Processor: AMD X6 1090T Phenom II Black Edition 6x3.2 Ghz (6 true cores)
Video Card: nVidia GeForce 6800 XT
Sound Card: M-Audio Delta Audiophile - Analog I/O (RCA)
Video Capture: Onboard and TI chip IEEE PCI card
CD Burner: Asus DRW 24B1ST
DVD Burner: Asus DRW 24B1ST
Camera: Canon HV30 HD

Vegas Pro 8c.
VASST Ultimate S Lite

_________________

Peter - There was a tiny hiccup after installing a couple of old freeware plugins with Word 97, but it works fine. Haven't used it much yet, but it's all set to go.
Watching that old teal Win95 install interface style was kind of nostalgic :o)

"Thankfully Vegas does not do this - the new features are (generally) in response to new technology and needs, but a document is a document is a document and all I want to do is to put words between margins etc."

Both Vegas and Office are backwards compatible. Office is forwards compatible if you save in an older format. Vegas has no such capability e.g. a V10 project cannot be saved so that it can be opened in V9. Any of the Office 2010 apps can save in a format that can be opened in at least Office 2000, I think even Office 97.

One thing I'd like to see in Vegas Pro is being able to Save a project as VMS compatible.

Bob.

"To try and sell more product, they keep producing new versions ..<snip>.. and in fact the newer versions get so complicated that they become harder and harder to use..."

'Zackly. Rampaging featuritis. That's what I have against software suites: they try to be everything to everyone, when it's often only one of the included tools that excels. One size really fits no-one.

This is why I groan when users pellet SCS with requests for occasionally frivolous new features instead of improving the performance/crushing bugs from the current version. I may be among the crabby minority, but I don't see any reason to add 'Burn DVD from Timeline' to Vegas, when there is a complementary, free and full-featured companion product in DVD Architect available to do the job.

Buddy of mine here on the forum and I have a term that we coined several revs ago, when Vegas started to slip from the robust & hardy workhorse that was for years: we call it the "Pinnacle-ization" of Vegas. Fortunately, it hasn't gotten quite that bad, and my experience has been mostly positive, but I do simple projects.

I'm till a (mostly) satisfied Vegas proponent...

This is why I groan when users pellet SCS with requests for occasionally frivolous new features instead of improving the performance/crushing bugs from the current version. I may be among the crabby minority, but I don't see any reason to add 'Burn DVD from Timeline' to Vegas, when there is a complementary, free and full-featured companion product in DVD Architect available to do the job.

+1

And I would add that SCS should consider delivering ironed code. Bugs will always raise from time to time and be candidates for fix in early releases but the actual mess with keyframes is difficult to accept.

Buddy of mine here on the forum and I have a term that we coined several revs ago, when Vegas started to slip from the robust & hardy workhorse that was for years: we call it the "Pinnacle-ization" of Vegas. Fortunately, it hasn't gotten quite that bad, and my experience has been mostly positive, but I do simple projects.

Let's hope SCS will not follow that way. I won't start long or complex projects with v10, neither v9.

I'm till a (mostly) satisfied Vegas proponent...

Really sad but I have to say "I was". Actually thinking about a switch to another one :(