He says the files came right off his camera's chips. Didn't do anything to them.

Vegas help mentions something converting XDCAM-EX to MXF.

How do I do that?

You need him to send you the BPAV folder and use Sony's XDCAM EX Clipbrowser (free) to rewrap them as MXF files.

REMEMBER: What works in Macs does not work in PCs.

Thanks. I'll give the software a try, but my guess it won't work.

Kind of strange that Vegas can edit XDCAM-EX but can't import the MOV file....

You'll have to have the BPAV files for Clipbrowser to work.

The files used in Vegas are MXF; the files used in FCP are .MOV--two different animals!

Daniel, you really need to research such projects before getting involved. Like I said earlier, Mac NLEs and PC NLEs are two different things and do not talk to each other--never have, and probably never will, not directly. You can't just trade off files between the two.

Daniel, if the JVC is a model HM700, see if it also recorded MP4 files.
I just got this camera a few weeks ago and I found out the hard way that no matter what I did, MOV files would NOT import but I could drop the MP4s right on a Pro 19 timeline.

Mike

He'll still need the BPAV folder to access the MP4s. And if he has that, he can use the Clipbroswer, which is the better route to take in the long run.

The files in the BPAV folder are like the camera negative was back in the day. You want to keep that in tact. Because if you simply pull off the MP4s and delete the BPAV, you'll be screwed if you need to go back to the beginning at some later date.

Jay, I'm the first to admit that I don't understand the entire process but I've already shot and edited 3 videos doing it the way I described with no problems at all.

Mike

Maybe not, but if you continue for long you'll run into a situation where you need the BPAV folder--that holds everything! If you've gotten rid of it...

Also, you CAN trade off BPAV folders between Macs and PCs without any problem, whereas you CANNOT trade off the MP4 files without converting them, then you'll start to degrade the image.

Can you use just the MP4s? Yes. Is that the best approach/workflow? No!

Get in the habit of using Clipbrowser and transfering the files to your HD as MXF files, then store your BPAV folders in two different locations (as a backup protection).

Read this thread at The Cow.

Many of the JVC cameras are touted as recording MP4 OR 'Native Final Cut Pro format' files.
Whenever I see something listed as 'Final Cut Pro' format that tells me that, since apple refuses to release the codecs to play FCP mov's on the PC, that you will need to jump through hoops to make it work. No, QT Pro doesn't help, and even on a mac it won't play without FCP installed.
If you're lucky the MOV-to-MXF converter from Convergent Design may be able to re-wrap them. Or take a look at Calibrated Software for their XD Decode.
Good luck with it.

Get in the habit of using Clipbrowser and transfering the files to your HD as MXF files...

Jay, I've tried Clipbrowser and the JVC utility but have not had any luck so far.
I'm obviously doing something wrong but can't get my head wrapped around this.
Do I need a different card reader?
I'm using a generic one that I've used for a log time to read images from digital still cameras but, when I try this with my SDHC card, nothing :(
Neither Device Explorer or XDCAM Explorer show this reader.

p.s. thanks for the link to the Cow forum post. It was a great read.

Mike

Mike, when you say "JVC utility" are you referring to the JVC ProHD Clip Manager?

It looks like a watered down Clipbrowser, which it would have to be, since the camera is using the XDCAM EX technology (that's clear because it does create and use BPAV folders).

Having read through the manual (for Windows portion) it appears that you can only access/use the files as MP4s. That is not bad in and of itself, as long as you keep the BPAV folder in tact somewhere. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any way to wrap the media as MXF files, hence, you're forced to use MP4s, which I don't understand. Too, that camera appears to have "optimized" for FCP users, as the first file format recording type is "Quick time format for Final Cut Pro" (which supports Dave's comment above) That is a deal breaker for me! The MP4 option seems to be an appeasement for those who have not been assimilated by FCP.

You may want to check the JVC forum at The COW to see if anyone there is using that camera with Vegas. I know on the EX forum the vast majority of users are of the FCP ilk.

Sidecar2, as I said in the above post, the JVC cameras have been optimized for use with Final Cut Pro. So it's no wonder that the .MOV files play nicely in FCP and not Vegas.

Again, to work in Vegas, you will need either:

1. The unaltered BPAV file(s) or

2. The MP4 files directly off the SDHC card (This assumes the file type was not preset on the camera prior to recording. If the files were recorded as FCP files, then I would pass, if it were me).

This camera records long GOP mpeg-2 at 35Mbps regardless of the wrapper being .mov or .mp4, there is no change to the underlying codec. One limitation is it can only record 50/60i in the .mov container which is truly wierd.

If the files are in the .mov file format it should be relatively easy to rewrap them to .mp4. I managed to pull this off once I recall with files from another camera by simply renaming them from .mov to .mp4. It might be worth a shot in this case. Some in depth explaination of mp4 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_14

According to JVC the .mov files are readable natively in Premiere so clearly the issue is not with the camera using some oddball "Mac" codec.

Bob.

Bob, according to the JVC site I visited, here and here, the files are native to FCP.

Mike, when you say "JVC utility" are you referring to the JVC ProHD Clip Manager?

That's the one Jay and I have to say that I'm not too impressed with it.

I just had another look at the XDCAM EX ClipBrowser and finally figured it out.
I was operating under the assumption that it had to be launched from within Vegas.
I ran it in standalone mode and the light bulb finally went on :)
Thanks for your patience with me on this.

Mike

Mike, were you able to access the files? With Clipbrowser open, and the proper drive selected, click on "File" and select "Export". There you will see several options. The one you want is the first: "MXF for NLEs". That should export the files to your HD/folder as MXF files.

Good luck! Let me know how it goes.

Jay, I was able to access the files and experimented with the various export options, just for my own curiosity.
Everything worked as expected and I now know how to deal with these files :)
Thanks once again for your help as it was greatly appreciated.

Mike

Excellent! Glad to hear it's working for you, Mike!

Hopefully, it will work for Sidecar as well.

One limitation is it can only record 50/60i in the .mov container which is truly wierd.

Bob, I don't know about the earlier models but when I set my HM700 to MOV mode, I get 60i, 50i, 30p, 25p and 24p as frame rate options.
This is in 1920 2 1080 mode.
When it's set to 1440 x 1080, then I only have 60i or 50i.

Mike

"Bob, according to the JVC site I visited, here and here, the files are native to FCP."

They're exactly the pages I was reading.
The exact words are:
File Format: Quick time format for Final Cut Pro/ISO .MP4 media file format
and
Native .mov file format

This is not the same as what say Arri are doing with the Alexa that writes Prores onto SxS cards.


JVC are doing the same thing as Convergent Design, they are wrapping the XDCAM EX stream in either a .MOV or .MP4 wrapper. The contents are exactly the same. I'd hazard a guess JVC are even using the same Sony chip as Convergent Design use. By doing so the FCP users don't have to wait while FCP rewraps the video if the video is wrapped in a Quicktime wrapper.

As someone hinted at above Convergent Design have written a couple of little utilities to wrap .MOV <-> .MXF.
The utility can be downloaded from the bottom of the page here:
http://www.convergent-design.com/Downloads/tabid/1650/Default.aspx
The code is written in Java so it should run on both OSX or Windows.

Bob.

farss, you are a friggin' GENIUS.

Your simple Convergent Design converter works GREAT! Converts a 4GB file in less than 10 minutes!


XDCAM EX ClipBrowser 2.6 didn't even see the MOV files, much less help me edit them.

And I'm sorry for not "researching" this project before taking it on. I had no choice. I don't know what camera exactly made the MOV files, have no idea where the MPAV folder is or if it even exists.

All I know is:
1. that inside QuickTime, it says the MOV file is XDCAM EX but that it can't open it on my PC.
2. The Convergent Design applet does some magic and converts the MOV to MXF, which imports at full rez into Vegas Pro just fine.

Thanks again.

PS. My solution yesterday was to drop the MOV into our Telestream Episode encoder and wait for it to output a 720p H.264 of the same size, then move the giant files across the network. Takes forever.