http://www.sonicfoundry.com/shopping/catalog.asp?Category=4&PRCat=30

Man, you NEED to use the IGNORE button. Please do.

I am NOT (repeat this to yourself 50 times genius) looking for the "freebie" as you say.

I am looking for an SF response to the question posed. I want to hear HOW AND WHY this justifies an upgrade VS. update - ESPECIALLY AFTER BEING DROPPED LIKE A ROCK WITH SUPPORT FOR CD ARCH...THEN SEEING THE "CD BURNING" in SF5.

I will most likely go (meaning PURCHASE..now repeat that 50 times as well) with VVideo after checking out Premier. I am NOT asking SF to "hand me over a free copy of VVideo" you moron.

Did you NOT read anything - or did you CHOOSE to not read the argument.

Even though Va2 owners have to go VV3 to get what should have been there (including me moron...I'm not getting a free copy) - I AM SPEAKING AS TO HOW WRONG THIS CRAP IS (and repeat this to yourself another 50 times). It's marketing bullsh*t that is going to kill SF over time.

Now PLEASE use the ignore button, as going in circles with you and Chowworks is enough to make ya sick. You two just don't get this post...you never will. It's clear.

How do you get up in the morning? Do you dress yourself? Do you drive a car?

You can do the above - but ya just can't quite get the point of this VERY SIMPLE post?

IGNORE - use it

JoeD

Not wanting to join the cat-fight, but thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...
Chienworks - Check out CD Architect - it is not just another CD burner. None of the other products can do fades etc. It is the only non "soudblaster-consumer" type of burning s/w out there that I know of.
JoeD is right that many people think that SF have made some grave marketing cock-ups with this s/w.
SF5 (ie24-bit) came way too late and should have included CDA.
VV3 should offer (it probably does?) a reasonable upgrade path for the defunct VA2.
'CDA' within VV3 should work with Plextor drives!!! - what a cock-up! I can't believe that the major audio-users CD drive Co.'s drives are not supported in Win98SE - the OS of choice for audio-users.
A lot of audio users (SF5 customers) are having to buy VV3 just to get CDA continued for new drives. This causes a lot of people to feel like JoeD, rightly or wrongly.
nuff sed.

He (by NOT answering as for why - and just posting the upgrade link) is basically stating "that is the way it is with SF" - but he knows EXACTLY what I'm saying in the post at least.

why can't you? The synapses just aren't firing with you for some reason.

WVG, the thing you're missing is I like VVideo 3. I do. Even sonic EPM knows this.

Now here's the meat kiddo - listen up:
I am blown away in seeing the AUDIO features (along with the many,many VIDEO features) ONLY added to VV3.
The audio updates "I'm" talking about are minor in comparison. They are items which SF SHOULD have followed through on with CDarch...and into VA2.
(again - go to the CDarch forum and read away baby)

It's marketing and it's a joke - and I am saying so in this post.
Are we green up to this point? Is there ANY confusion up to this point?

Now - this thread is nothing for you to get worried OR excited about (which is kinda strange kiddo, can I tell ya that?)
Why? This thread will drown away with the other "hey - what's going on SF, my butt hurts" posts. I know that, SonicEPM knows that, you know that.

However, I WILL voice how I feel about it. Maybe future products won't fall into the special edition "rectal series" category.

JoeD

"Chowworks" ??? Who or what is that?

scuse my spelling

Chienworks

(who should have used HIS IGNORE BUTTON 4 posts ago)

JoeD

"Do you work at SF Doug?"

No. Nice try though. Don't like those Wisconsin winters.

"I could sell my land in Florida to guys like you. It's not my fault you're complacent."

Not complacent, just willing to pay for the best tools available.

"So, RIGHT NOW - what is the price for this user to get into VVideo3?
Tell me please."

Too bad you didn't take advantage of the $99 "early bird" offer last year. So sorry for you.

"This after buying Vegas 1, Vegas audio 2.0, and every Sfoundry update known to man...just to get what SHOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE."

I'm sure if you were writing the software everything would be so much better. At least it would have a complaint button. :)

"You know Doug, I don't know how long YOU have been an SF supporter...but I've been here with them from the mid-80's. That's a lot of history. AND $."

Oh, I'll humor you: Sound Forge 3 - 4 - 4.5 - 5.0; CDA; Acoustic Mirror; Batch Converter; Noise Reduction 1 & 2; VV 2 & 3; plug-ins. I might have missed the beginning but I've spent plenty with Sonic Foundry. So what? Every version has been great to work with and SF is entitled to the dough. :)

'Now, why do you think I feel so strongly about the way SF is going about business these days - this "upgrade" included?..."

It's true that the company has changed. You and I are free to jump ship if our needs are not being met. SF has to satisfy its investors and follow its mission. They have streamlined their line. Whereas they previously had three products, VA, VV, and CDA to meet various needs they now have one, VV3, which incorporates everything these products could do and, frankly, a lot more besides. Most of us do not see how this is bad. It's efficient and effective; and that's good business.

Regards,
Doug

I'm glad you're happy with everything :)

I'm not :|
Get it?
Complacency is bliss

JoeD

Joey, stop pretending to be so utterly clueless. This is a PEER to PEER forum. Sonic Foundy has made that clear. While they may repond to posts from time to time the SoFo policy is very clear. In fact they offer a web based feedback form for suggestions, a toll free number to customer service, more than once they have offered you a refund and YOU STILL PICK THIS FORUM TO RANT, YELL SCREAM and in general be a pest.

Will you stop it?

Use the ignore button if you don't like what I have to say.
I have now enabled it with YOU.

There is nothing customer support will do to rectify any of this anyway,

XX ooo
JoeD

There is nothing going to come of your ranting in this forum either. So what's your point in posting expect to show how pig-headed you are? We already know Joey. There's no need to prove you're a jerk. You already have proved it. Many times.

How do I remove vocals froma mixed track?

Oooooh! The most useful question in this thread. ;)

You know, I've tried to stay out of this "debate" for as long as possible, but I'm growing impatient with the childish bickering, name calling, and out-n-out immaturity. And no, that comment is directed at no one in particular. Stop being so freakin' sensitive.

Anyway, it's this simple... Vegas Version 2 (Pro, Audio, LE, Video, WHATEVER) is NOT BEING DEVELOPED ANYMORE. It happens all the time. Acid 2, Sound Forge 4.5, and Video Factory 1 are ALL testaments of this. And yeah, this is business. But it's also THE NORM guys. Sonic Foundry is not doing anything unusual or evil. There comes a point where the code or feature set of a program changes so dramatically that the makers of the product must CHARGE people for an upgrade. We all know this, so let's not act like Vegas Audio 2 not being upgraded is some highly unusual event.

To clarify, let’s understand something about the Vegas line of products…. It goes like this: Vegas Video, Vegas Audio, Vegas Audio LE (Video Factory is a step-child in this family). Vegas Video is the flagship of the group. It has ALL the features. Vegas Audio is a stripped-down version of Vegas Video, Vegas Audio LE of Vegas Audio, etc, etc. Everyone understand so far? This concept follows the pattern set up by other Sonic Foundry products. There’s Sound Forge and Sound Forge XP. There’s Acid Pro, Acid Music, Acid Style, and Acid Xpress, all in that order in terms of what they offer. It’s makes a wonderful amount of business and economic sense. What’s this mean to the topic?

Well Joe (and anyone else who’s interested), let’s refresh everyone on what your original question was: “Why can’t the new audio features of Vegas Video 3 (such as CD Architect, new bussing, timeline burning, etc) be incorporated into Vegas Audio 2?” Let’s look at this mathematically: 2 is different than 3. Because of this irrevocable fact, one can not legitimately convince me that new features in Vegas 3 should be included in Vegas 2 (Don’t even start whining about the damn naming conventions. It’s a non-issue at this point). It’s kinda like asking why Sonic Foundry won’t develop a patch for Acid Music 2 that will add the Beatmapper and MIDI support from Acid 3. That would make no sense whatsoever. Those are features of Acid Pro 3. They don’t belong in old versions. That’s why you buy the upgrades. When a version number changes, the previous version is no longer supported with patches. Everyone knows this. So don’t get mad when you find out that Vegas Audio 2 won’t be getting the new features. Just because new “audio” features were developed doesn’t mean the “Audio” program is entitled to the features. And yes, Joe, I know you have Vegas Video 3, and that you’re happy with them. I understand this. None of this post is meant to belittle you or piss you off. I’m in no mood to argue with people. All I’m trying to say is that your request just isn’t conceivable. Vegas Version 2 is done. Vegas Video 2 didn’t get the snazzy new features. Neither should Vegas Audio 2.

So yeah, maybe the naming conventions should change. I wish it’d be like this: Vegas Pro, Vegas Audio, and Vegas LE, or something similar to follow a bit more closely with the other Sonic Foundry naming conventions, since it’s apparent people are being confused. Granted, there are logistical reasons against this that needn’t be discussed. Not right now, anyway.

Now I’m a very busy man. I’ve got many things to do, but I hope my contribution to this conversation has helped clarify a few things. Remember guys, the folks at Sonic Foundry need to feed themselves every once and a while. Making money isn’t possible when you keep giving everyone free updates. Yeah, it’s marketing. But it’s also life. Let’s deal, okay?

Have an absolutely wonderful night,
Nick LaMartina

"I'm glad you're happy with everything :)

I'm not :|
Get it?
Complacency is bliss

JoeD"

I'm sorry you're not happy, Joe. Sure I get it. You could, however, become happier by deciding to be happier. Give it a go! It's just not worth raising your blood pressure over a software upgrade.

Doug

GG,

I can't believe there is a user who actually understood most of my posts point.

Yes, I am vocalizing on SFs "marketing" choice in THIS matter (small audio matter).
Actually, as you can tell it's mainly due to one small addition that really bothered me - CDarch burning. I can't tell ya how I prefer this over any other application (there - is that HATRED AGAINST SF??). Sadly - it was gone. Poof.
past cdarch/vegas/VA2 users complained enough for SF to reconsider...but the only problem is that those users wouldn't see it...the video kids would.

Does this feature alone justify a complete upgrade?
A feature which really should have been a consideration for previous CDarch owners. This also only benefits audio users
(answer: it now HAS to)

The master buss? Ok - don't include it. Remember it came about due to VA2 users suggestions.
But cdarch burning...a product which left many users in the dark one day. SF wakes up and brings it back from the "support of the dead" - but GOTCHA...you paid for CDarch? Sorry - you now need to buy VVideo.

Not to mention that SF5 really should have contained this CDarch burning instead of the less than stellar one it carries now. It makes sense to put burning software where one usually masters/edits down - the editor. Many expected this...but were shocked in seeing what was there.

But...what do I know.

No, I am just REALLY shocked at how the SF marketing team handled the situation. Not good in many eyes. So i am going to speak up on it. More arguments?...great. I get to re-enforce my statement on the matter.

Just think how much BETTER off SF would be by SIMPLY INCLUDING THIS SMALL AUDIO FEATURE MANY PREVIOUS CUSTOMERS CARED ABOUT SO MUCH. It would be night and day in real world reviews.

I don't know how the many other repliers here got the notion that:

a) I don't understand what an upgrade is
b) I somehow want it all for nothing
c) That any of this is a personal afront to them (still laughing at this). What are they?...door to door VV3 pushers?

Fact - For ALL VA2 owners: we HAVE to bite the bullet and go with VVideo (those who would like the master buss and cd arch burning support we once talked about a while back).
When little or no reply on VA3 creeped in...I knew that - YOU knew that...we now HAVE TO GO VVIDEO3

But I wasn't going to do it without telling it like it is from this kids view.
It's honest.

Whatever though. These posts will die by the wayside as does all posts of this nature (you can relax now wvg).

JoeD

Since Joey D refuses to shutup and some of you think its OK for a loud mouth to use this forum as his personal soapbox in his long running personal vendetta against SoFo I may as well hammer away at his "arguements" just for the sport of it. :-)

For YOU Mr. Clueless, aka JoeD, you can restort to your juveline name calling all you want. It has zero effect on me and only reflects negatively on you. I've climbed up on your back and I'm not getting off until you shut up or are kicked off the forum for abusing it.

1.) customers have no say in how a software company markets its applications no more that you can tell General Motors how to build cars or Kellogg what to put in their cereal. In fact nobody owns any Sonic Foundry application they have no matter how much they paid for it. Like almost all software you are paying for a LICENSE to use the software. Ownership remains with the developer. Next time you buy software Joey actually READ the license agreement BEFORE you click that you agree and you'll save yourself all the mindless screaming and yelling laboring under the illusion you were cheated or in some fantasy world talk yourself into beliving that you're entitled to upgrades, enhancemensts and all manner of freebies simply because at one time you paid for an earlier version of some application. Sorry, Joey, this is the real world. Software companies are in business to make money, not forever supply newer features to some joker that bought an earlier version of of their application some time in the past. Remember, you don't own the software. You have a license to use it. That's all you have.

2. JoeD has complained long, loud and bitterly that features in CDArch were his preferred method for burning CD's. Apparently JoeD is royaly pissed off because some of those features are no longer available in other SoFo products. Well Joey, TOUGH COOKIES. I don't use that application so I don't know what it does. I can tell you this, if it was generating a great deal of sales SoFo would no doubt have continued it. Apparely they have decided to drop it and not include all the features that application had in Vegas. Again, that's SoFo's choice, and RIGHT! You don't have to like it, but an adult you should accept it. You prefer to just whine on and on like some naughly little boy that didn't get his way.

3. JoeD tries and fails miserably to make some point that past users are entitled to some consideration for features they want, but which for a variety of reasons aren't available. Again Joey, you may have brass balls, but your grey matter is just a handful of oatmeal if you think any software company is going to appease a small handful of very vocal users simply because they (one in particular) make a lot of noise in a forum. The bottom line is the decision has already been made. You lost Joey. You can rant on and on, but doing so you simply paint yourself the fool.

4. Limited CD burning features are included in Vegas Video. My guess because people asked for them. Frankly, as currently offered it is a limited feature. CDarch may have add some nice features that are no longer included. That's life. You are not entitled to dicate what features should be included and what can be dropped. Trying to do that and clearly that's what Joey is trying to do is only noise this forum can do without. Mr. D has been told he could get a refund. He apparently refuses. Reading Mr. D past rants which goes back way over a year it is very clear that Joey is one of those characters that gets off bitching in forums and newsgroups.

On the point of dropping some CDarch features, Joey said it best "what do I know". Answer: You don't know. That's the point. They are already many good CD burning application out there already. Why SoFo decided to not go foward if in fact that is their decission, IS their decission. Nobody has to consult with Joey to get his blessingly. As Mr. D and been told countless times, if you're not happy with SoFo products they would generiously give you a refund. Joey prefers to distrubt this fourm and continue his endless ranting and bitching.

5. Mr. D said "No, I am just REALLY shocked at how the SF marketing team handled the situation. Not good in many eyes." My only question of Joey would be what is HIS marketing experince for bringing commericial grade software to market. Take all the space you need to answer Joey. My guess is Joey has ZERO experience in marketing. What Joey has is a BIG mouth which he can't control and shoots off whenever the mood strikes him.

The upgrade path for VA2 users is clearly Video Factory 3. While it may not have a couple features of CDarch it has a bunch of features VA2 didn't have. From my understanding users of VA2 had (have?) an opportuntity to upgrade. Many did. A few preferred to just whine and rant. Joey seems to have made doing that his life's work.

wvg - Go try CDArchtect - find out what it did. Maybe then you wont talk out of your ass in ignorance. Find me a program on the market that can do what it did. I've tried the major ones - all 'consumer'.
SoFo have great products but have made marketing cock-ups - period. SF4 was #1. Now there are a dozen other programs out there - all because they didn't get SF5 out fast enough in 24 bit, and continued to charge a fortune for CDA as stand-alone, then stopped SF support, then axed the product.
We are here to help them (and in return help ourselves) with this feedback.
I personally believe that SoFo are missing a trick with no rudimentary MIDI capabilities in VV3 also. This will be a major decision factor for potential audio users of VV3.

:0 Wow, I can't stop laughing at this post. Do you think wvg missed his medications?
Man, you need to know when to shut up WVG. Looks like JoeD handled the thread just fine, without even slinging hellfire and threats to you.
Then we see this post from you slinging your d*ck around like we care.

So how is the crusade in getting joed kicked off going?
Where is that post again? :P Nice move. Real smooth.

Now JoeD is no saint as far as I can tell here but you're showing your true colors wvg. In a word - spiteful. Lashing replies, whines of abuse in hopes to raise attention from SF, and now taking it upon yourself to cast a vote on a member to boot.
My best advice would be to stop it right now.
You need to know when to quit while you're behind cause I think you've lost it WVG.
He made some valid remarks I happen to agree with and some others I didn't.
Why can't you deal with this?

As for why I'm laughing? You typed up all that yet failed to realize he used the ignore button on you a few posts ago. he probably won't even see this.
ROFLMAO

The energy being spent on this subject is amazing, and I think I see reasonable points in both sides of the argument. But that's not why I'm posting this...

Check out this website...

www.iqsoft.com

For years, I used the SAW line of products. Spent MANY dollars with IQS as the SAW line (at one time) had significant advantages over any other DAW software. Then one day, BANG!... No SAW... No IQS.. No warning... No Nothing.... Just thanks very much.. everything you own is dead.. and if you want the latest software, kindy fork over $2000 by March 11, but we really won't even support you then since we're going into the turnkey business.

Check out http://www.sawstudio.com/

You should have seen the threats of lawsuits flying on the IQS forums when this happened.

I just switched over to VEGAS and ACID.... 10X the power... fraction of the cost.

Software comes... software goes... It's the nature of the beast.
Karma

Why can't audio heads understand that the software biz is just like any other business in that new products are launched all the time and older ones are replaced, merged or support simply stops after version whatever. That's why they don't make buggy whips anymore. Every one of us has bought software they liked and then support for it disappeared. Sometimes overnight. Take Amorphium from Play Software. I liked it. It was a nice 3D sculpting and painting application ported over from the Mac platform that had some unusual features. It died. It happens. I haven't tried CDarch. It sounds like a lot of audio heads like it. I don't know if SoFo stopped producing it or just put it on the shelf for awhile. Whatever. Get over it.

Someone enlighten me, what is so special about CDarch that you miss and can't find another product that does similar things?