There's already been someone who agreed with me here, but I'm not looking around my shoulder for people to agree with me. I'm looking forward to how to best run a business. If you're content looking around you for a consensus, I'm happy to watch.

"You don't get customers by sniffing your nose at them, saying they should know whether Vegas renders correctly, or saying you have to pay to see trial software work. I can get trial software of izotope to clean audio (though a lot of features are disabled), I can try lots of other trial software plugins to work with Vegas."

You don't get customers without the software. Download it, try it, and if you like it then buy it.... THEN get customers. Why should SCS allow you to make money from unlicensed software??? I have no idea why this requires explanation.


"Showing you're willing to reach out to good customers wins against your narrow, smug attitude every time."
MY narrow smug attitude???

From a business point of view my real concern would be.
If installing V13 killed V11 what happens if I don't buy and uninstall V13. Will V11 still work.
Most software products are not backward compatible. So work in 11, save the project to a new veg and open in 13. Try out new features etc but use the V11 that you own for I presume paid work.

At least V13 is backwards compatible with V12 but not much of a consolation if coming from V11

"If installing V13 killed V11 what happens if I don't buy and uninstall V13. Will V11 still work."

If you make a confirmed system backup BEFORE you test Vegas 13 then it will not matter.

I cloned my system drive before I even touched Vegas 13. So if Vegas 13 is not what I want, all I have to do is go to my cloned backup and all will be as if Vegas 13 never happened.

From a business point of view, that is the ONLY way to do it!

Vegas Filmmaker - is running a Business.
Vegas Filmmaker - expects to get paid for his work.

SCS - is running a business.
SCS - expects to get paid for their work.

Why are you 'trialing' v13?
Is there something you are missing from your current NLE?

Graciously would be without a watermark. It would be making very clear the license terms that tie NewBlue Essentials 6 and the like to single versions. You make it sound like they are doing users a favour in allowing them to test the software. What's next, paying to use the software every month? How about paying to report bugs? The way the balance is drawn affects the relationship between the seller and the customer.

I haven't trialled V13 yet. And probably won't considering I haven't received the promotion email. I'm sensitive to screen layouts and I think I would find a watermark on the screen too distracting. It sounds not worth the bother.

wow, an amazing thread....

i mean really!?

trial software is exactly that - you don't have to trial it, and if you do and find it beeps, squarks, stops you using options, throws a watermark about the screen BIG F'KING DEAL it's a trial.

really, get a grip on life....

"I'm sensitive to screen layouts and I think I would find a watermark on the screen too distracting."

Seriously?

ushere used a capital letter.

ooops, sorry john ;-)

Yeah, if a trial is too F'KING annoying that' a lost sale.

Sure, I don't know for certain, but I've given up on some software in less than a minute if it is visually distracting and I can't change it. Having said that, I did manage to upgrade to Vegas 12. I seem to remember an interesting video.

I think that once people get into a mindset where they're annoyed or frustrated then they tend to dogpile on the new releases. Real bugs, user errors, misconceptions, and peeves all get labeled as "TOTAL DISASTERS!!!" and it's hard to find the useful forum posts among all the fireworks.

Rob

Because there are lots of easy ways to skirt around a trial period lockout (eg: disabling the software after X days), the watermark ensures the software has a valid serial number once purchased.

I know a lot of plugins I've trialled (Red Giant and NewBlue come to mind) have a big mother-honkin' red X or a watermark through the frame when rendered with a trail of a plugin. So while I can trial the product, I wouldn't be able to deliver anything with it.

Heck, the trial version of Sound Forge inserts annoying beeps into the file when rendering it out. If you don't like it, buy the software. If the beeps keep you from being able to discern whether the software is what you need or not, then you probably shouldn't be using it. ;-)

I was going to stay out of all these discussions since I have not downloaded 13 and may not.

But - as much as I agree with not delivering a paid project with an unpaid-for software, with all the GPU issues of the past few versions, I think a lot of users are going to be evaluating VP 13 based on rendering times with and without GPU accel., trying various video drivers, etc.

Adding a watermark to the rendering is going to make all these judgments inaccurate because of the additional compositing time for the watermark. So you won't be able to truly judge rendering speeds on a long project without buying the software first. I don't think adding the trial watermark was a smart marketing move at this point.

Edit: And I wasn't aware that it was in VP12! I purchased that without downloading the trial. I think I've made the global decision in software to not upgrade anymore unless there's something in it I need, or something that makes me more money. Spending less time bug reporting and more time making a profit is this year's resolution. I still haven't finished a paying job in VP12. 11 works great for me and I never wanted to spend the time diagnosing the occasional crashes I got in 12 because I wasn't using any of the new features. If 13 seems stable eventually, I may get it just for the XAVC-intra codec.

"So you won't be able to truly judge rendering speeds on a long project without buying the software first."

OK, so what if adding the watermark is going to slow the render down a bit? If the render is acceptably fast with the watermark, then it's going to be even faster once you pry your wallet open and buy the software.

I haven't seen a good argument yet on this thread for not including the watermark. It's a TRIAL for crying out loud. What would make you folks happy? "Here's a fully functional version of the software, use it as long as you'd like and buy it when you feel like it, or not."

@ John Cline.
As I stated, I wasn't aware Sony began this in version 12 or I would have commented then. A time-limited trial seems to have been fine with SCS and users up to that point. If I was marketing primarily to my current user base, who have had issues with GPU and rendering functionality in previous releases, I don't think I would add or detract anything from the software functionality itself, so that a proper judgment of everything could be made. If I was marketing primarily to new users, perhaps I could argue for the watermark but I'm still not sure what would be gained by NOT offering a full functioning 15 day trial. If it's to deter pirating/cracking, I don't think it will have an effect.

Like I said, I don't have a horse in this race - I haven't downloaded the trial, I just don't understand the change in policy at the point in Vegas' history it was made.

I was surprised to see it, but no big deal not going to do a project in a trial version anyway...not going to do a project in a purchased version either till it checks out,.but i really doubt it stops anyone from cracking the software...

How about, "Here's a fully functioning version of the software, buy it if it works for you."? I think this is the model that cockos uses with Reaper. So what if the user even makes a finished product within the trial period. The new version should be so much better than the previous version that people want to upgrade to support the company. That's not the impression I've really had with Sony products since they abandoned Acid.

To be fair, except when upgrading from Vegas 3 LE to Vegas 4, I ran a project through the Vegas trail before I upgraded. I never had any water marks, beeps, etc. Until the Sony version of Vegas (forget what one), when you would install a Sonic Foundry trial it would use the older plugins and possible update them, but they wouldn't be under a trail. For example, I could render to mpeg-2+ac3 with Vegas 6 Trial when 4 +DVDA was installed. Does that work with versions after 10? I know it doesn't upgrade plugins but I just got a 64-bit OS this calendar year, so 13 was the first version I've tried since they went 64-bit only.

I ran a project through (normally while doing the same work in my "tried and true" Vegas) so I could find if the new features helped, or things they took out hindered. When I tried 5 Trial I didn't upgrade because they took the presets out of the Track Motion window. Was back in in Vegas 6.

I've tried Acid & SF Full and the beeps never bothered me. I knew that the only thing different between full and trial would be the beeps (that was still a 30 or 15 day unlimited trial). As far as I can tell, Vegas 13 Trial is an unlimited in features. Not sure about days. The only thing I noticed is the water mark.

Which brings up an important point: With 5 I didn't buy it, nor 7 nor 9. I did NOT complain I didn't like it and did NOT complain I couldn't finish a product because of the trail time limits. I did use it in a "professional" way. I 100% complied within the TRIAL limitations. I might of point out why I wasn't updating, but never ranting: SCS isn't forcing me to update. Notice I said up above I ran a project through BOTH versions at once? For 10 I didn't have a project done in time for the time limit, I liked it, I paid for it on the the last day. Yes, double the work, but I am making $$ and just like when I test drive some vans, I took both through a "normal" two hour stretch of me driving, just like I took Vegas though. (Yes, the salesperson went with me while I went ant bought stuff, brought it home, and I insisted he didn't help me so I could see how I could handle the new doors, etc. on my own).

Anyone who complains about a watermark in trial software is, simply put, ret@rded.

Depends on the watermark and how it interferes with the experience of the product for the individual user. Why so aggressive?

Expecting to be allowed to deliver commercial product created with a trial product is is absurd

About as absurd as expecting a rock solid initial release. About as absurd as not being treated like a beta tester. About as absurd as acknowledging bugs in previous versions but not fixing them, etc

Just the opposite here. The watermark i'd hardly even notice. The beeps drove me nutty.