Is the original media 10-bit? Is it v-log?

Is the original media 10-bit? Is it v-log?

No, 8 bits - CineLike D

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Here are the screenshots

Thanks for the screenshots on which I cannot see strange things.
If you have possibilities in export for QSV or NVENC you could try a small part that gave you the digital noise.
Or try Voukoder to export

I have the same problems if I use luts and color correction in the project and render the video in 8 bits. I always have to switch the project to 32bit floating point (video levels) before rendering. And rendering at Best quality. Default is Good.

Try it and let me know.

Youtube delivery is much lower quality than what you are giving it. You are seeing compression artifacts on the walls, and there is really nothing you can do for Youtube. Your upload bitrate does not affect the processed bitrate, which has dropped from 40Mbps to 18Mbps or less on Youtube's servers. You can "try" the deblocking filter, but it has no effect on Youtube's reprocessing.

You can try uploading to Vimeo and see if it is better, it often is.

@JH26

We're in a double-bind here since the example video that you posted here on the forum got re-encoded yet again to meet Magix expectation for the trade-off between file size and cost of their storage.

Here is the Mediainfo report for the video downloaded from this forum.

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\John\Downloads\9663D749ECDB4AC397653D2CB638FF21.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 21.7 MiB
Duration                                 : 19 s 970 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 9 110 kb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Writing application                      : Lavf57.25.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 19 s 960 ms
Bit rate                                 : 9 104 kb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.044
Stream size                              : 21.7 MiB (100%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 148 r2748 97eaef2
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 
/me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 
/ trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 
/ threads=3 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 
/ bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 
/ direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 
/ intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=22.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 
/ qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=10000 / vbv_bufsize=5000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none 
/ filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language                                 : English
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 19 s 970 ms
Duration_LastFrame                       : -22 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 3 111 b/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 7.58 KiB (0%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Hint: Lavf57.25.100 is not from the Magix AVC/AAC render template.

I did a comparison with Resolve with a gradient image. Could not see much difference so turned up the contrast to the point of breaking the image then turned it back a little. This is the result. This problem doesn't seem related to the encoder. Why does the 32bit FP image look so bad, did I make a mistake?, I don't believe so but I would agree it's unexpected to see, and yes that is dropped frames in the Vegas encode.

Music: Sora by Roa (Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY 3.0)

GH5 has excellent lowlight quality. Maybe:

1. not shooting with ISO higher than 400, extra light blending if needed;
2. shooting in 10bit422, better in V-Log/HLG when available.

Nothing to do with VEGAS (rendering).

4k8bit production can't avoid some color banding due to size and depth.

Is the original media 10-bit? Is it v-log?

No, 8 bits - CineLike D

I've worked with these files from a similar Panasonic camera and didn't have particular issues in VEGAS. Did you do further editing in VEGAS (color, etc.) before rendering or is this test just a straight transcode of the original file?

Your original files do have higher bitrates than VEGAS- you could try increasing the maximum somewhat and see if it maters.

Beyond that you can try x264 through Voukoder for very pristine looking renders. Not sure if it will make any difference for noise, though.

@RogerS I see noise in the waveform for 8bit Vegas processing, but not the 32bit Vegas and Resolve processing of the gradient picture I tested abolve. Is that expected do you think, and also is that cause of OP's noise?

Like @pierre-k suggested, he should try 32bit floating point to rule out it's an 8bit processing mode problem.

Music: Sora by Roa (Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY 3.0)

EDIT:

Why does the 32bit FP image look so bad, did I make a mistake?

I sure did, I started out with encoding 10bit versions and the Resolve version didn't get replaced with the 8bit version. Resolve 8bit and Vegas 32bit float processed version is close to identical.

Very interesting test! I think synthetic gradients may not work the same way as real-world footage but sure, you can try to render in 32-bit mode and it may change the nature of the noise, though I doubt it will be much different. I'd be happy to do a few test renders here if source footage can be made available. Does a ProRes render look any better?

I haven't noticed noise getting worse in my own renders. I also generally go from 4K to HD on render which may make it less apparent, though.

Youtube delivery is much lower quality than what you are giving it. You are seeing compression artifacts on the walls, and there is really nothing you can do for Youtube. Your upload bitrate does not affect the processed bitrate, which has dropped from 40Mbps to 18Mbps or less on Youtube's servers. You can "try" the deblocking filter, but it has no effect on Youtube's reprocessing.

You can try uploading to Vimeo and see if it is better, it often is.

In fact, it's the video file output from vegas pro that is degraded, before I upload it to Youtube.

I tested the deblocking filter, but it has no effect.

I have the same problems if I use luts and color correction in the project and render the video in 8 bits. I always have to switch the project to 32bit floating point (video levels) before rendering. And rendering at Best quality. Default is Good.

Try it and let me know.

Thanks, this is the best solution I've tried so far.

This does not completely eliminate the problem, but it corrects it significantly.

Usually I use video noise reduction, but it affects the rest of the video

@Former user Could this be a problem with Vegas Pro? And not only a concern of adjustment on my part?

@RogerS Regarding Voukoder, I install it on Windows, then the option appears in Vegas Pro?

So far I haven't filmed in 10 bits, because my card has a maximum write speed of 90 mb/s, shouldn't I buy a faster card (a model to be recommended?) and film in 10 bits, to have better quality and no longer have this kind of problem? Even if I export in the end in 8 bits?

I think something is wrong in Vegas. 8-bit rendering degrades the video and adds more noise and pixels to it. 32-bit mode preserves the original video quality. This topic was once addressed here. I'll try to find it.

I also don't use Magix Avc at all. Sony Avc or Voukoder x264 is much better for me.

@Todd-A0 Could this be a problem with Vegas Pro? And not only a concern of adjustment on my part?

Most likely, due to a lack of precision/accuracy. Most or all modern NLE's work in 32bit float by default but if Vegas did that there would be so many more complaints about how slow it is. Vegas's decision to not upgrade the render engine years ago will continue to haunt them.

I have the same problems if I use luts and color correction in the project and render the video in 8 bits. I always have to switch the project to 32bit floating point (video levels) before rendering. And rendering at Best quality. Default is Good.

Try it and let me know.

Thanks, this is the best solution I've tried so far.

This does not completely eliminate the problem, but it corrects it significantly.

Usually I use video noise reduction, but it affects the rest of the video

 

 Could this be a problem with Vegas Pro? And not only a concern of adjustment on my part?

 Regarding Voukoder, I install it on Windows, then the option appears in Vegas Pro?

 

So far I haven't filmed in 10 bits, because my card has a maximum write speed of 90 mb/s, shouldn't I buy a faster card (a model to be recommended?) and film in 10 bits, to have better quality and no longer have this kind of problem? Even if I export in the end in 8 bits?

For LUTs and color correction, the more you stretch an image the more it will break, especially if it's 8-bit to start with. I would encourage all of you to work with 10-bit source footage if it's an option.

Then you can render in high-bit mode (32-bit full, view transform off), produce an 8-bit file and avoid banding and similar artifacts. Any degradation at that point will be due to compression.

Definitely render in best quality, no reason not to.

For Voukoder if you install it in Windows AND install the connector that matches your version of VEGAS it will show up in the render options.

Personally I use 8-bit Sony footage (100mbps 4K X-AVC S) that is carefully shot, color correct it, process it in 8-bit full and render with Voukoder using x264 and am satisfied with the visual quality. [I'm mainly a photographer so don't want my work marred with artifacts] I was also satisfied with 8-bit Cinelike D on a G85 if I turned the in-camera dynamic range expansion feature (something like that) off, otherwise shadows got far too noisy and low-light shots were unusable.

Thanks for your advice

Make your videos render in 1440p, that will get rid of a lot of compression on YouTube. White noise is always a problem with YouTube's compression tool so giving it a higher bitrate and uploading at a higher resolution while taking more space is the best way to get rid of it.