to johnmeyer re the archive concern

I am indeed archiving to Blu-ray 25gb discs all projects/support files.
And I might add with rigorous checksum and quality control checks, you just can't copy a file anywhere without lots of check systems.

A second feature that I use on Blu-ray very successfully is including the personal computer extras folder. You may recall that this was a great feature of DVD release, where on a video authored disc for set-top players it was possible to add computer files for companion info.
This feature is readily enabled by DVD Architect for DVD authoring but the SCS team chose not to allow it 5.0b release for Blu-ray.

WHY? well, that's because the SCS team as we all can, noted -this feature was not addressed in the Blu-ray specification. IT WAS NOT forbidden - it was just not addressed. BUT it is possible to add the extras folder in a rewrite of the iso file by ImgBurn or Nero. And it passes the test of compatibility with my entire test-bed of set-top players and is most certainly accessible by any better quality Blu-ray software on XP/Win7.

So as an example I can author a Blu-ray hi-defintion video with AC-3 sound and have an extras folder that contains the movie script notes in MS Word to be accessible by the customer.

to johnmeyer re the archive concern

hd's - one goes to client, and another dedicated portable usb stays with me, and also backed up on nas.

have never been asked for blu-ray, but always for media player ready files.

"What interests me more is what is someone who is skipping Blu-Ray entirely actually doing to store all their media?"

By far, the least expensive way to store large amounts of data is a hard drive, I have about 40 bare hard drives ranging in size from 1 to 3 terabytes stored in a fireproof safe. The least expensive way to distribute high-bitrate HD video with menus is Blu-ray. Blu-ray for data storage is too slow and too small to be of any practical use to me.

Thanks for all the replies about archiving HD.

Hard drives were cheap until the Thailand floods, but I expect they'll get cheap again in another eighteen months. I've bee putting all my media on hard drives, but not as a long-term archiving option but instead I use it as a way to quickly get at any media file without having to sift through DVDs or re-capture tapes.

[edit] BTW, that "WhereIsIt" utility that several people here recommended makes it really, really easy to find files across all those offline disk drives sitting on a shelf. It is an absolutely mandatory utility for anyone in this situation. Works well on DVDs as well.

All my DV and HDV video is archived on tape, a format I am extremely comfortable using, at least as far as the stability and longevity of tape are concerned. My only issue is whether the equipment needed to play these will be easily available in 20+ years. So far this hasn't been an issue with simpler tape formats (like reel-to-reel and cassette audio) but many computer backup tape systems are getting tougher to find, and I expect that HDV tape systems may be tough to find some day.

I am 100% confident that rotating shiny media players will be around for a long, long time. CD was introduced in 1984 (or was it a year or two earlier) and now, almost thirty years later, it can be read by pretty much anything that accepts round shiny discs. So, I like the idea of using Blu-Ray as a data storage device, and storing the original files on that, rather than re-encoding to get specifically to the BD spec.

I guess it is time to start researching which Blu-Ray burner to buy. I'll probably go with an external drive.

If you want to ease into this you should buy a consumer Blu-ray player and add it into your home theater. You can always burn red laser media to play HD content. For $250 you could have both. Call me. We'll go to Frys.

I'm archiving all my raw footage to Bluray now. Been using Backup4all and assigning the burner as the backup device. With all the data verification it takes some time, and lucky I have someone else to babysit it, but so far it's been flawless. In the last year I pulled 2 different hard drives archives out that had failures and so everything now gets backed up to HD and Bluray. I think I'm getting more confident with a shiny spinning disc that relies on a player than a shiny spinning disc(s) in a sealed enclosure that relies on it's own electronics to work.

If you want to ease into this you should buy a consumer Bluray player and add it into your home theater. You can always burn red laser media to play HD content. For $250 you could have both. Call me. We'll go to Frys.Are you in the SF Bay Area? Didn't know that.

A trip to Frys would be good. Also, I would like to try to create either an AVCHD DVD or the MPEG-2 version. As I remember from all the threads a few years ago, DVDA can do the MPEG-2 version, but for what I'm doing now, the AVCHD version might be better.

Of course having said that, I'm starting with 60p 1920x1080, so I'm going to have to re-encode to get from 60p to 60i. I assume that I have to do that in order to get a Blu-Ray player to handle it.

The only issue I have with getting a Blu-Ray player for the home theater is that what I really want to do is finally build my own home theater PC. With that device, I should be able to create something that can play anything, record anything, and in many cases, improve almost everything (through ultra-smart deinterlacing, etc.).

Not in the Bay Area, but it's happened before.

I built a HTPC but moved it because, as quiet as they are, I thought it was still too noisey. Now, I use it to capture. I have a WDTV media player, but the new versions of Blu-ray players play all the media types that I need. I went to Frys and played my home-made disks in six or more brands before I bought.

For Blu-ray, you will need to render to 1080-60i or 24p, or 720-60p. Don't get hung up on AVCHD disks. All my disks are BDMV file structure, saved as .iso and written to any physical media that has the capacity required.

Currently, I have a 1.5TB HD USB connected to the Sony Blu-ray player and network connected to the systems where the work is done. I create a BD image, then convert the image to MKV to play on the Blu-ray player. With the AVC codec, the chapter navigation is maintained, not the menus. Since the same decoder is playing the files as the physical disks, I can't see a difference.

For those who want the home theatre experience I have news for you per John Dennis comment - you will never be able to baffle the PC cooling system enough to get the good audio experience.

Please just invest $100 at Costco or whatever discount you have in a set-top Blu-ray player- you will do yourself a big favor on that.

Doug

I built a HTPC but moved it because, as quiet as they are, I thought it was still too noisey. I've seen a lot of discussion in the AVS forum about this. It's probably not a big issue for me because I can put it into a closet. Even my old Pioneer laserdisc player (which still works) and is powered by a jet engine, doesn't interfere with quiet passages in movies.


Don't get hung up on AVCHD disks. All my disks are BDMV file structure, saved as .iso and written to any physical media that has the capacity required.Just to make sure I understand, you are saying that you simply follow the standard Sony Vegas to Sony DVD Architect workflow? You then create an ISO image and then burn that, I assume, with ImgBurn?


I create a BD image, then convert the image to MKV to play on the Bluray player.Once again, just to make sure I am understanding, you create the BD image in DVD Architect? Also, what do you use to convert to MKV?


With the AVC codec, the chapter navigation is maintained, not the menus. Since the same decoder is playing the files as the physical disks, I can't see a difference. This confuses me. Isn't the BD image you are creating using the MPEG-2 HD encoder, not AVC? I am a total neophyte in preparing Blu-Ray or red laser discs, not having done either.

"...you are saying that you simply follow the standard Sony Vegas to Sony DVD Architect workflow?"

Yes

"You then create an ISO image and then burn that, I assume, with ImgBurn?"

Yes

"...you create the BD image in DVD Architect?"

Yes

"...what do you use to convert to MKV?

A program called MakeMKV that musicvid mentioned recently. This is a relatively recent addition to my workflow.

"With the AVC codec, the chapter navigation is maintained, not the menus."

A physical Blu-ray (round and shiny) plays in my Sony Blu-ray player just as it is authored. DVD Architect supports two codecs for video on Blu-ray, MPEG-2 and AVC. (Other companies author Blu-rays with the VC-1 codec from Microsoft but it is apparently not supported in DVD Architect.) I have had little reason not to use MPEG-2 in the past since it is less of a burden on my old but competent machine. Since I got the new Blu-ray player and begun playing files from a local USB hard drive I learned that MPEG-4 (AVC) in an MKV wrapper will allow me to navigate within a title from a Blu-ray mage that I rewrap. With the advent of rendering assist from the video card, AVC renders only take twice as long as MPEG-2. Before, it was taking much longer and I didn't render AVC for Blu-ray. With my next hardware upgrade, I should be at or below unity for AVC renders.

Using the Blu-ray player as the focus for playback, I can play from the round and shiny disk and hand it to my children when I'm done, or I can play the Blu-ray image in a MKV wrapper (with some loss of navigation capability) from a USB hard drive connected to the Blu-ray player. I manage the hard drive from my wired household network.

Very clear, and very useful. Thank you!

I took the thread title to be asking how to deliver HD to others. However it could include delivering it to my houshold, I suppose.

I burn a Blu-ray ISO file with DVDA, including normal menus, and then play it from a USB drive plugged into my Network Media Player. I could also play it directly from my PC via the network, but I don't.

One advantage of using the media player is that it doesn't suffer from the Blu-ray "next" button problem discussed in other threads, whereas my Panasonic Blu-ray box does.

Here is a good addition to this discussion.

Weekend before last I shot a staged reading of a new musical with my EX1.

There were three people that want copies to review. Two co-writers and the sponsor.

So first I made a Blu-ray disc of the production.

I called all three of them. None of them had a Blu-ray player. All of them wanted an SD DVD. I offered to loan them my player. None of them were interested.

John

I called all three of them. None of them had a Blu-ray player. All of them wanted an SD DVD. I offered to loan them my player. None of them were interested.Wow, that's amazing, given who you were dealing with, and that this was for reviewing the performance.

This thread is definitely influencing my decisions in the coming months of what equipment to buy for my own use, as well as how to consider future delivery of HD projects.

"I called all three of them. None of them had a Blu-ray player. "

I just stepped out of my office and asked ten people if they have a Blu-ray player. Eight have Blu-ray players and two do not. We all work in technology, so the result is probably skewed. Likely, about as skewed as asking three performing artists.

Of my three children under forty, one has a Blu-ray player and two do not. All three have smart phones. One without a Blu-ray player has an HD camcorder.

When I was a traveling musician I never owned a record player.

We should be careful drawing conclusions about consumer habits based on small, non-representative samples.

For those who produce content for others for a fee, your experience is a valid indicator of what your customers want and what you can sell in the short run. In the long run two things happen; 1) tastes and preferences change and 2) we're all dead.

Disclaimer
Nothing I say should be construed as being representative of anything. If you don't believe it, just ask my wife.

We should be careful drawing conclusions about consumer habits based on small, non-representative samples. Yes, that's the first rule of marketing: never extrapolate from your own personal experience.

The market data on Blu-Ray players sold is solid. The first sales were in June of 2006. By October 2010, the installed base in the US was 21.1 million. Then, according to this article two weeks ago from CES:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/01/10/ces-2012-blu-ray-discs-break-2-billion-barrier-for-first-time-in-2011/

the installed base of players in the USA has now grown to 40 million.

However, in the same sentence, the article also states that USA HDTV penetration is now 74.5 million. That means, I think, that almost half of those people who own HDTVs don't have a way of playing HD content from a round shiny disc.

I am one of those.

While these numbers are solid, they are pretty anemic compared to the penetration rate of DVD during its early years. I researched and provided those numbers back in this thread exactly six years ago, along with my views on what I predicted would be a very slow adoption rate for Blu-Ray:

Blu-ray & HD-DVD players coming

So, looking at these market penetration figures, Blu-Ray is a solid success, but certainly not anything like the VCR, DVD, cell phones, or MP3 players.

I do have one more personal observation, and also an educated guess (even though I just agreed that this is an invalid way to gauge a market). Here it is:

I know people who own a Blu-Ray player, but none of them are under thirty years old.

None of my children (ages 24 and 20) nor any of their friends own either a TV set or Blu-Ray player. What's more, I don't think they ever will. For them, music, movies and video are available via streaming and watched on their computer or portable device. They have no need, nor do they have an appreciation, for a large sound system or a big-screen TV. Those things are what you find at bars, restaurants, and theaters.

So, while obviously there will be exceptions, this generation is different. In my generation (the "boomers"), even before we were earning money, we all wanted a great stereo and a color TV.

I don't think the modern equivalent of this demand exists en masse.

my small sampling (about 100 families / businesses) reveals NO blu-ray players, but around 60% media players on 100% lcd or plasma tv's.*

*this might be influenced by my previous suggestions, and the fact that by default i supply finished hd files on dvd (mp4) and i'm happy to supply them on a (free) thumb drive as well.

then again, in rural australia there aren't any convenient video stores around the corner, and most people can't, or couldn't tell the difference between well encoded 720 vs full hd.

I have a 40 something year old friend who delights in connectivity and portability and has many videos downscaled for his small portable devices. During a recent visit he noticed that my theatre system had an ipod dock to which he inserted his ipod and played a movie. I thought that the low-res quality on my 50 inch screen was horrible, but he was rapt. HD has no charms for him.

If you ask the average young person which technology they are most interested in and want the most it is "portable" technology. That at least appears to be consistent.

John

Ditto to what John (craftech) said.
I have two teenage daughters and they prefer to watch content on an iPod, cell phone or iPad.
All this while they're sitting in my living room with my 50" Sony crying due to lack of attention :)

Mike

I would love to keep things simple and just sell DVD like in the "old days".

but:

1. its too easy for users to download content for free - thus it must be just as easy or easier to get for pay
2. i have to think of this, if I go to a website considering buying media, do I want a DVD...not so much any more.


i am investigating different solutions right now. it looks like I will be selling timed access to CMS pages that have embedded video on the page. this is going to take a bit of fancy web development to do right, especially when you factor in the need to essentially turn on or off any one of three choices - per title.

1- Hard Copy
2 - Download
3 - Streaming

So for any title I should be able to offer one option or all options.

So far I am looking at some custom Magento work to handle the CMS page access and probably Amazon S3 / Couldfront with JW player to stream. But I might use something like Vimeo or even scale up to Wowza but the streaming part is the least technical, it just comes down to cost.

Now it might be easier on the web end of thing if i was using wordpress:

http://workbookproject.com/newbreed/2010/06/21/build-your-own-vod-portal/

but certainly doable in Magento too

the other big decision is to go with 1920 or 1280. although everything i say at this point is subject to change, at this point 1280 will be more efficient and i could use it for

1.- streaming
2 - download and DVD-R of Encore created flash DVD

the tests i did in Encore using a 1920 master via lagarith > then to flash seemed to come out pretty good + have full menus and navigation in tact.