DVD to PC

Maverick wrote on 8/28/2014, 5:16 AM
I have several family event DVDs (PAL) going back a number of years that I produced using Vegas that I want to transfer to file as the DVDs don't always play well now.

It's mostly for my mother who, at 86, likes to reminisce.

Getting the DVD contents to PC is easy with Vegas (12) and I have no need to do any further editing but I would like a little advice on getting the best results to file. The total size of the transferred files is just under 2GB.

So far I have tried three different methods:

1) Video for Windows: PAL DV : Progressive
Resultant file was over 10GB!

2) Sony MXF : PAL DV : Progressive
Resultant file was also over 10GB!

3) Mainconcept MPEG-2 : PAL DV : Progressive
Resultant file was 2.3GB.

The quality wasn't too bad but I am wondering is there a better way of achieving my goal using Vegas? Should I have kept the file as interlaced even though the file will only be played on a PC or tablet connected to a 720p TV? Which codec should I be using to give the smallest file with the best quality and what settings should I change, if any?

Thanks for any help.

Comments

TheHappyFriar wrote on 8/28/2014, 5:26 AM
Anything you do except a combine of the mpeg's to another mpeg will result in a slight file degradation. So the "best" quality would be an mpeg-2. No reason to render any higher resolution and removing interlacing will result in 1/2 the data being thrown away.

I guess if you want to run it on a digital device you could render it to wmv or mp4, but I don't know how much space you'll save.
set wrote on 8/28/2014, 5:34 AM
I have almost similar client wants to do the same (MiniDV tapes recordings of her family life, her baby's video)). The final target is media file, for playback in FlashDisk, media player.

The best option I have is to render it to Internet MP4 480p templates, but with higher bit rates, around 3 to 4 Mbps.

Set

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Maverick wrote on 8/28/2014, 6:02 AM
Thanks for the replies.

When I set to progressive I got the feeling it was the wrong thing to do but couldn't think why. Cheers for that, HappyFriar.

I'm currently rendering to Mainconcept MPEG-2 keeping the default settings.

I'll then do as suggested by set and see how each work out both in size and quality. The only thing is with set's option that the original is 720x576 so, surely, reducing the size will reduce quality somewhat?

Edit: Just as an aside the original is 4:3
musicvid10 wrote on 8/28/2014, 6:48 AM
Handbrake is designed to do this.
OldSmoke wrote on 8/28/2014, 7:00 AM
and removing interlacing will result in 1/2 the data being thrown away

I only "half" agree. You could actually re-render to 50p instead of 25p. I have not done this with DVD material but I have done it many times with HDV 50i and Vegas does a good job when deinterlacing is set to "interpolate" and smart resampling is on. I waated to have my HDV footage on a BD at 1280x720 50p and it looked really good. I gues this all could be done in HB too, maybe even better. This all only makes sense of your TV can playback 50p.

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PeterDuke wrote on 8/28/2014, 8:03 AM
If interlaced is OK then you can't do any better than concatenate the main VOB files and rename the extension to MPG. No re-render and no loss of quality.

Concatenation can be done using the COPY /B command, but it is a bit tedious, but not too bad if you are only doing one DVD. If you have many, you may prefer to use a program like VOB2MPG.
set wrote on 8/28/2014, 8:12 AM
The only thing is with set's option that the original is 720x576 so, surely, reducing the size will reduce quality somewhat?
> It's true, it will reduce the resolution to 640x480, anyway, mine is just a quick solution only, as I have to keep it simple. If we need to keep the resolution, MPEG2-interlace is still the much preferred... I can't comment about upscaling it to at least 720p and make higher frame rate to 50p from interlace original.

The other way you may can do it, but this method will only be playable in PC, make your discs as ISO image file. I'm using Imgburn, then with VLC media player from Videolan.org, drag ISO image to the player.

Set

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john_dennis wrote on 8/28/2014, 9:04 AM
"[I]...several family event DVDs... DVDs don't always play well now.[/I]"

I appreciate your willingness to help your mother connect with her past. Here's another approach based on a different definition of the problem. If the DVDs don't play well now, the disks and/or the DVD player are probably failing. Disks "rot", get scratched and get unreliable over time. I've also found all optical disk players to have a finite life span.

If your mother can use a DVD player, she likely understands the user interface but may be reluctant to adapt to a different player.

A Completely Lossless Proposal:

Buy your mother a new optical player but this time get a Blu-ray player.

Get the video off the old DVDs as quickly as you can, especially if these are the only source of the video.

Combine the VOBs per DVD image.

Demux the VOBs to separate video and audio.

Create a new Blu-ray project in DVD Architect with all the DVDs on one Blu-ray.

Give your mother all the video on one Blu-ray disk and keep an iso.

If you still want to pursue playing as files, put your output on a USB flash drive, plug it into the Blu-ray player and play from there.

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OldSmoke wrote on 8/28/2014, 9:20 AM
the original is 4:3

Sorry, I missed that. But, you can bring the 4:3 VOB file(s) into Vegas in a 1280x720 50p project but don't let it get cropped to fill the screen or resized in any way, let it maintain the original 4:3 (720x576). Put a track below and insert a solid black generated media over the full length of the project. The idea of buying a new BD players is a very good one too. Render it out to a Blu-Ray 50p template and burn a BD with all the movies and a "shiny" menu to select from. I did that with all my old D8 PAL tapes and a few Hi8 that I had. The result is actually amazingly good and I can't see any loses at all. If you don't want to make a BD, frame serve to Handbrake which will give a stunning mp4 file with a PAR of 1.

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riredale wrote on 8/28/2014, 10:50 AM
Sorry for possibly being the fly in the soup here but why not just copy the DVDs to new DVDs? The old ones are failing because the wrong brand was used. Stick with Verbatim or TY and they will outlive you.

We discussed saving memories on flash memory a few weeks ago. I still can't get my head around the idea. Would much rather have a shiny disk where I can print nice graphics on one side, and it's physically large enough that it won't be easily lost.

But maybe it's just me.
OldSmoke wrote on 8/28/2014, 11:12 AM
riredale

"[I]why not just copy the DVDs to new DVDs[/I]

Na... that's too easy. ;-)

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System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

videoITguy wrote on 8/28/2014, 11:54 AM
If you are going to copy a disintegrating media DVD to a new DVD - which can be successful, then you need to be sure you are following best recovery and QA tech.
1) Make sure to test the old DVD stability with an error check on several different PC hardware players. ( Nero Ahead software has the error check app). Find the hardware that performs the best playback cycle with the least error count. This is also known commonly as verifying media id compatibility with a given hardware/firmware.
2) Once the best player is found- then use this DVD writer to write your next copy DVD with modern media.
3) BUT, don't do a direct copy - instead use software to rebuild the iso image (Nero) to the harddrive of the PC first - then the rebuilt iso gets burned to the copy DVD
Maverick wrote on 8/29/2014, 6:36 AM
Thanks for all the replies and helpful advice. As always this is a great forum with so many willing to give their help.

At 86 my mum's memory of and ability to use a DVD is non-existent so that it why I was thinking of transferring to file. Mum wouldn't be able to play any herself as she no longer uses a PC but I can set them up for her to view on the TV when I visit.

I think the quickest and simplest and quickest method is to do as PeterDuke said and simply concatenate the VOB files and rename to mpg.

I had hoped I could do it slightly differently by renaming the VOBs to mpg first then using Boilsoft Joiner (I already have the paid version) but that wasn't working very well on my laptop. I'll try it again at home over the weekend.

I was trying to use V12 as a sledgehammer to crack a nut!

Cheers all.