Exporting Closed Captioning files from Vegas Pro 19 (Build 643)

cbrillow wrote on 9/12/2022, 3:31 PM

Hi all,

I've been working on a project consisting of episodes of a television program produced on tape in the late 80s by a New Orleans station, and 'archived' to mpeg-2 (ouch!) by the station's DVD recorder. We have taken this as source material for restoration with Topaz Video Enhance AI that's bumped it up to a ridiculous resolution for cleanup, then down-rezzed to 1440x1080HDV, (4:3par) and finally back to 720x480 mpeg-2 for authoring a DVD, which is now in production. I know, it sounds like a crazy process, but Topaz did a magnificent job in improving the video quality.

A PBS station down in New Orleans wants to air 3 or 4 of the restored episodes in late October, and we're delighted to make our work available, but there's a new wrinkle: being governed by FCC regulations, they're requiring Closed Captioning, something I'd not previously played around with. (and yes, they expect us to do it...) But I did a little paging through Vegas help files and looked at some YouTube tutorials, and it seems that Vegas is up to the task.

I obtained a .SRT file from a YouTube upload to a private URL, and Vegas imported it easily, creating all the captions as generated media text events at the appropriate times, and they line up wonderfully with the video. The text requires a lot of editing/correction, which is easily done, either be editing the individual generated media events or with in the EDL. Piece of cake!

So now, I want to export the edited version as a new .SRT file, or even a DVDA .SUB file. Under Scripting, there are several options listed for exporting closed captions -- for YouTube, for DVD-A, etc. But when I select one and hit 'ok', nothing seems to happen. The dialog box closes virtually immediately and a 0-byte file is created in the output folder.

Am I doing something wrong? Am I supposed to have something 'selected' in order for the file to be written correctly?

Help!!!! (Please... 😉)

(I'm expecting that my machine specs/OS and all that is not relevant to this issue, but I'll be happy to spell if out, if deemed necessary or desirable..)

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 9/12/2022, 3:44 PM

Unfortunately, VEGAS cannot embed the CEA708 closed captions required for HD broadcasts. WEAR (I'm over in Mobile) was able to take my .srt files from VEGAS and merge them with the mpeg 2 HD .ts files I sent them of the program, and got it working that way... so see if the station has the capability to do that. If not, maybe consider reaching out to those that do and ask them if they can do the embed for you as a service, as the last time I checked, there was no easy, affordable way to go about it on my end (but this was back in 2010, this may have changed). I lucked out with WEAR, their engineer was very helpful and was able to make it work.

Also...

down-rezzed to 1440x1080HDV, (4:3par) and finally back to 720x482 mpeg-2 for authoring a DVD, which is now in productio

This puzzles me a bit, as HDV's interlaced field order for 1080 is upper field first, but mpeg-2 480i DVD is lower field first, that doesn't seem like an optimal path to take.... Wouldn't a progressive upscaled source format be optimal?

fr0sty wrote on 9/12/2022, 3:53 PM

VEGAS 20, if you are a 365 subscriber, also lets you do speech to text, that might help you with generating the captions, and might even produce superior results.

Also be sure to try out VEGAS' own AI-powered upscale plugin, many have said it can produce comparable or sometimes even superior results to Topaz. The upscale effect was introduced in VEGAS 19 and updated in VEGAS 20. It renders slow, but it saves a round-trip to Topaz, and knocks it down to one render.

As far as generating the .srt file... I'm not sure why it isn't working... it would be helpful to know what version of VEGAS you are using, and what build of that version (you can find that in the help menu under about). We can start troubleshooting from there.

This guide I found does make a mention of the 0kb file... but it's really old (VEGAS 13)

https://jeromecloninger.com/articles/closed-captioning-and-sony-vegas/

Some things to try.

cbrillow wrote on 9/12/2022, 4:08 PM

WEAR (I'm over in Mobile) was able to take my .srt files from VEGAS and merge them with the mpeg 2 HD .ts files

Thanks for your prompt attention and the information you've provided. But you've apparently missed the central point. I'm not able to export a .SRT file from Vegas. It turns up empty, regardless of which script I choose. The sole exception is when I try to export the EDL, which writes the following to a 1k file:

TITLE: Closed captioning & subtitle text
FCM: NON-DROP FRAME

This puzzles me a bit, as HDV's interlaced field order for 1080 is upper field first, but mpeg-2 480i DVD is lower field first, that doesn't seem like an optimal path to take....

There's some secret sauce in here, as my partner-in-crime uses some old-school software and AVIScript to do some preliminary work on the source mpeg-2s and part of Topaz's wizardry involves a very competent deinterlacing. But the bottom line here is, the 1440x1080 HDV I'm working with is 59.94fps progressive, not interlaced, and my down-rez to mpeg-2 for the DVD is also progressive. (and the DVD project is a hybris with both widescreen and 4:3 content)

cbrillow wrote on 9/12/2022, 7:17 PM

Maybe I erred by describing my project in full instead of limiting discussion to what doesn't work. I appreciate that there have been attempts to help, but I don't need alternatives to the way our project has been upscaled, I don't need to subscribe to Vegas 365 to do speech-to-text recognition, I don't need to buy a 3rd party tool or us a free or pay service to create a .SRT file. What I need is for Vegas to execute one of its own built-in scripts.

Someone, anyone, please focus on the issue: I HAVE the captions/subtitles on the timeline in Vegas, and everything plays flawlessly. I don't need to create them, regardless of the number of lines or any other criteria. They are there. I have made a number of corrections to the text and I need to WRITE THEM TO A FILE, which Vegas purports to be able to do.

Under Tools/Scripting, the following scripts are listed:

Export Closed Captioning for DVD Architect
Export Closed Captioning for QuickTime
Export Closed Captioning Windows Media Player
Export Closed Captioning for YouTube
Export EDL

The problem is this: I select one of the scripts, "Use the Save dialog to specify a file name and folder for your captions file, and then click Save.", I do this and empty file is written. There is no content of any type. It is a zero-byte file.

Am I doing something wrong? Am I supposed to have something 'selected' when the script is invoked? Am I not holding my tongue in my mouth correctly? Is this something that's been broken in Vegas for 15 years and nobody every noticed?

cbrillow wrote on 9/12/2022, 7:29 PM

. it would be helpful to know what version of VEGAS you are using, and what build of that version (you can find that in the help menu under about).

I figured as much, which is why that information is included in the subject line of the topic... 😉

fr0sty wrote on 9/12/2022, 7:39 PM

Do you still get a 0kb file if you add your own subtitles and then export them, or is it only with imported subs?

DMT3 wrote on 9/12/2022, 7:39 PM

@cbrillow I just tested and it works. When you imported the SRT file did you actually import as Closed Captions or as Subtitles (totally different things)? When you select a script it should give an option of where to save the file.

cbrillow wrote on 9/12/2022, 8:18 PM

Do you still get a 0kb file if you add your own subtitles and then export them, or is it only with imported subs?

I haven’t attempted to create any by hand, but have considered doing it to see if it would work that way. Please see my response to the next post, which I think asks a question that will lead to a resolution, one way or another…

Thank you, by the way for your continued interest in helping.

Former user wrote on 9/12/2022, 8:38 PM

Hi, new to this Subtitles/ Closed Captions/ SRT but willing to learn,

I added an SRT that i got from YT for one of my YT vids, Insert - Insert Subtitles from file - chose the SRT which put the text on the timeline, but the script Export Closed Captioning for YT did nothing, I think this is what @cbrillow is doing,

If i go to File - Import - Closed Captioning i get this with the text at the top, but it doesn't show it on the preview screen,

The script works when i do it like this, it produces an SRT like the one I got from YT which then can be Inserted back on to the timeline like separate text events,

but how do i make File - Import - Closed Captioning text that is at the top of the timeline show on the preview?

cbrillow wrote on 9/12/2022, 8:42 PM

@cbrillow I just tested and it works. When you imported the SRT file did you actually import as Closed Captions or as Subtitles (totally different things)?

I think your question holds the key to my apparent misunderstanding of what is supposed to be happening.

Unfortunately, I did the import several days ago, and don’t recall the precise steps taken. (It was a rote exercise done after watching a YouTube tutorial that seemed to be clear enough…) Then, I went out of town with the project on the timeline to do some edits to the text, but stopped working when I was unable to export the edits to a new .srt file.

I *thought* that I used the Import function and selected .srt as the file type. But when I just repeated those steps into a new test project, the result was quite different. The first time, a series of generated media text events were added to the project media and were added to the timeline complete with text, and properly aligned to the video. Your question makes me think that these are subtitles, because they are displayed superimposed on the video in the preview window. The markers looked like regular markers that are created when you press M, but they were all created automatically and contained the correct dialog.

This time, the import was done very quickly, the markers are of a different color and type and there are no generated media text events in the project media window. The markers are labeled with one of the closed captioning identifier numbers, so I’m guessing that these are the captions. I’m not at my editing machine now, so I can’t check, but it’s clear that this is what needs to be identified, and probably the reason that my attempts at exporting a new .srt failed.

Tomorrow, I’ll dig in and get this cleared up. Thanks for your assistance,

DMT3 wrote on 9/12/2022, 8:43 PM

@Former user In order to preview CC, click on the Grid Preview button, there is a drop down for the captions.

Former user wrote on 9/12/2022, 8:47 PM

@DMT3 Excellent, thought i'd tried all buttons 🤦‍♂️🤣👍 Thanks

cbrillow wrote on 9/12/2022, 8:52 PM

Hi, new to this Subtitles/ Closed Captions/ SRT but willing to learn,

I added an SRT that i got from YT for one of my YT vids, Insert - Insert Subtitles from file - chose the SRT which put the text on the timeline, but the script Export Closed Captioning for YT did nothing, I think this is what @cbrillow is doing,

Ah, yes! That’s the step that I couldn’t remember. It’s now clear that what we are doing here is creating subtitles, not closed captioning.

If i go to File - Import - Closed Captioning i get this with the text at the top, but it doesn't show it on the preview screen,

And that’s exactly what I saw when I did the same thing in a new test. As the helpful poster @DMT3 suggested to me, subtitles and closed captions are distinctly different beasts. Now we have to learn how to deal with these differences!

The script works when i do it like this, it produces an SRT like the one I got from YT which then can be Inserted back on to the timeline like separate text events,

but how do i make File - Import - Closed Captioning text that is at the top of the timeline show on the preview?

I’m not so sure that’s what actually needs to be done, although it sure makes checking and editing easy to do…

Tomorrow, I hope to know more…

DMT3 wrote on 9/12/2022, 9:10 PM

Use the IMPORT option to import CCs.

Former user wrote on 9/12/2022, 10:16 PM

I like that 👍

cbrillow wrote on 9/13/2022, 8:49 AM

I just wanted to say thanks to all who weighed-in to help me understand that I had imported the .srt file as subtitles rather than closed captioning, and that was the reason for the script writing empty files -- there were no closed captions to output!

After making that distinction, I went through a quick check, running the script and exporting DVD Architect .sub file, which I read into my DVD project. It worked perfectly. Ultimately, this isn't exactly what I wanted to do, but a better understanding of how Vegas deals with these entities should help me figure out how to accomplish the original goal.

DMT3 wrote on 9/13/2022, 9:06 AM

@cbrillow @Former user
There is one other long forgotten function in case the broadcaster requires what is know as an .scc caption file. This is a file in the format of Scenarist which use to be the gold standard for DVDs and captioning.
Create your captions on your timeline and then you want to render to a format that does not support embedded captions. I use MPEG1. What you do is start the render, then you can cancel as soon as it starts creating the MPEG. (you don't need it). Vegas will create the caption file first. Go to your render folder and you should see a file "projectname.scc". This is a Scenarist caption file. If you open it in Notepad, it will be a lot of gibberish, but it is a true .scc formatted file. Just in case this is what they require.

john_dennis wrote on 9/13/2022, 10:10 AM

It's unlikely I'll ever have a need to use this procedure, but I thought I'd share what it looks like at the end of the line for an ATSC transmission.

General
ID                                       : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                            : \\P8Z77\BeyondTV\60 Minutes-(Crisis; A New Model; The Kicker)-2022-09-04-0.tp
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 5.55 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 12.8 Mb/s
Movie name                               : 60 Minutes
Law rating                               : TV-PG (L)

Video
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@High
Format settings                          : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
Codec ID                                 : 2
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 11.7 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 17.6 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Active Format Description                : Full frame 16:9 image
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.188
Time code of first frame                 : 08:13:22;07
Time code source                         : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed                         : Open
Stream size                              : 5.06 GiB (91%)

Audio #1
ID                                       : 52 (0x34)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 384 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -554 ms
Stream size                              : 170 MiB (3%)
Language                                 : English
Service kind                             : Complete Main

Audio #2
ID                                       : 53 (0x35)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 96.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel layout                           : C
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -298 ms
Stream size                              : 42.6 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : Spanish
Service kind                             : Complete Main

Text #1
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)-CC1
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : EIA-608
Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Duration of the visible content          : 1 h 1 min
Start time (commands)                    : 7 h 53 min
Start time                               : 7 h 53 min
End time                                 : 8 h 55 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
Count of frames before first event       : 117
Type of the first event                  : PaintOn

Text #2
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)-CC3
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : EIA-608
Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Start time (commands)                    : 7 h 53 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)

Text #3
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)-1
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : EIA-708
Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)

Text #4
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)-3
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : EIA-708
Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)

General
ID                                       : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                            : \\P8Z77\BeyondTV\This Week With George Stephanopoulos-2022-09-11-0.tp
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 2.27 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 5 251 kb/s
Law rating                               : TV-G

Video
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Commercial name                          : HDV 720p
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@High
Format settings                          : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Codec ID                                 : 2
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 4 410 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 17.6 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Active Format Description                : Full frame 16:9 image
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.080
Time code of first frame                 : 12:58:46;57
Time code source                         : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed                         : Open
Stream size                              : 1.91 GiB (84%)

Audio #1
ID                                       : 52 (0x34)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 384 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -519 ms
Stream size                              : 170 MiB (7%)
Language                                 : English
Service kind                             : Complete Main

Audio #2
ID                                       : 53 (0x35)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -359 ms
Stream size                              : 85.1 MiB (4%)
Language                                 : Spanish
Service kind                             : Complete Main

Text #1
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)-CC1
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : EIA-608
Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
End time                                 : 2 h 4 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)

Text #2
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)-1
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : EIA-708
Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
Duration                                 : 1 h 1 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
Language                                 : English

cbrillow wrote on 9/13/2022, 10:28 AM

@cbrillow @Former user
There is one other long forgotten function in case the broadcaster requires what is know as an .scc caption file. This is a file in the format of Scenarist which use to be the gold standard for DVDs and captioning.<snip>

@DMT3

Once again, thank you for another helpful comment. At the moment, I'm still waiting for word from WYES to let me know what they're expecting to see. In any case, this has been an educational conversation.

It's always to one's benefit to hang around with people smarter than yourself! 😉