Generally, PC monitors are not designed for NTSC video resolution and gamma.

NTSC Video looks grey, lifeless, and low resolution on my excellent 24" Dell.

Get an HD tv instead...

I'd just hang onto the CRT.

LCDs have a lot of problems with SD, e.g. because they have to scale the image to deal with the non-square pixels (this creates artifacts) and because they have to de-interlace the signal (which doesn't really work).

Those points all being valid, make sure your Vegas preview window (in the app) is set for Best resolution at full scale. Vegas will only pass on to the monitor what is in the preview, so if it is scaled down / lower quality then that is what you will get in the secondary.

"You'd do much better just using the Samsung as a second monitor off your video card."

That is what I do, and the preview is acceptable but by not perfect.
Going through three steps hardly seems advisable if there is a connection available from your video card to your new monitor. (Edit: the picture of your video card looks like two DVI's and an S-Video output -- should be plenty of options for you).

Hey thanks everyone for your time and advice

I run two monitors out of my graphics card. I prefer to use 2 screens for my apps. With Vegas I use one monitor for the timeline and the other for trimmer, FX, titling, etc and of course I can use the vegas monitor too. However I do prefer to have an external monitor for viewing video re my set up - Vegas/computer/firewire/JVC/CRT monitor and it works great except for no 16:9 wide screen and Hi Def reso, which is almost the norm now days.

My main question is what do all the (you) professional editors use for a full Hi Def resolution wide screen external monitor (plasma?) cos CRT,s are no use for this and quite frankly even my "working" LCD monitors (which are DELL 22inch IPS screens) still do not look great at showing Hi Def video from the Vegas timeline, they are great when viewing a movie. So what causes this "dull" look with video from the Vegas timeline on ones desktop LCD monitor?

FYI
I tried using the TV out connection (not DVI) from my Nvidia 8800GT video card straight to the Samsung via RGB cables played around with it's colour settings but it still did not look very good and also It disabled one of my Dell's.

Oh well it looks like my son may have his wish...He has just plugged in his PS3 via HDMI and the Samsung screen looks fantastic :-(

Any other advice and tips would be appreciated.

Cheers4beers.... (I need one)

Lee

You could simply add another video card and run your 3rd monitor from that. Other alternative would be the BMD Intensity card with HDMI to the 3rd monitor.
The ideal solution is of course a HD SDI card to a proper broadcast monitor, they are getting closer to "affordable".

I think where this all started to go south is the variability of HDTVs.
There was a time when we created interlaced video with a 99.9% certainty that motion at least would look the same on every TV. With HD TVs we cannot even be certain of that. Fretting over how our colors look seems kind of trivial in comparison.

Bob.

Going through three steps hardly seems advisable if there is a connection available from your video card to your new monitor.

If the video isn't displayed in the correct colour space for video, meaning via a video out onto a television/video monitor, be it CRT or LCD, but only a computer monitor the end product may have unexpected colour differences when finally replayed on a TV.

If the end product is only destined for viewing on a computer or va the web then that really doesn't matter but if it is destined for replay on a television set then it's imperative it be viewed on an external TV/Video monitor.

This is particularly necessary for colour grading, titles and graphics.

A relatively cheap alternative, as Bob has mentioned and I use, for video output to an external monitor in HD and SD is the Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro card which offers composite, S-video, component and HDMI input and output as well as stereo analogue audio I/O and SP/DIF digital audio.

Particularly useful if you plan to move to HD but still need to edit SD as well.

newhope

so you are not having problems with the intensity cardwith Vegas Pro 8. I am using 2 monitors for timelne and want to use the intensity card for preview out only. Please tell me the kinks and support for those cards has finally been resolved for Vegas.

L.T.

I know of a couple of people using the Intensity card with beta drivers for Vegas. Seems to be working OK for them; I wish it was officially supported but I'm possibly going down this route as well, so I'd like to hear of other's experiences.

Why does the preview look washed out? See this article:
http://www.glennchan.info/articles/vegas/v8color/v8color.htm

Blackmagic Design have just released version 3.0 drivers for the Intensity range.
I haven't had time to test them extensively but that certainly work with Vegas.

Please note though I am running the card on a Mac Pro booted into Windows XP via BootCamp.

While that shouldn't affect the card's performance relative to other Windows (PC) users I do spend a large part of my time these days editng in FCP and mixing in ProTools LE under Mac OSX both of which also support the Intensity Pro.

This is due mainly to Vegas being particularly poor in handling ACVHD files, so my day to day use of Vegas is diminishing until such time a the AVCHD performance improves, hence my use of the card in Vegas is limited to testing that works and can replay old projects... it does. BTW I've only had it for about three weeks. Love it in FCP, Color, Motion and PTLE..

Meanwhile the Intensity Pro emulates a BMD Declink in Vegas... haven't tried capture and don't intend to use it for that either.

New Hope Media

I checked out Blackmagic some time ago which I thought would of been perfect but as Vegas/Blackmagic did not support it at the time I put the idea aside.

You must be in the know with Blackmagic as there is no reference to Vegas in the Intensity driver 3.0 Windows release notes.

Steve what you are saying is that if I purchase an Intensity Pro and connect straight to the LCD monitor via HDMI I will get the perfect HD image from the Vegas timeline out through my LCD monitor? I would love that..

Myself and others I am sure are very interested in how good it works with Vegas. Which version of Vegas 8 Pro 8.0a, 8.0b or 8.0c

Another question Steve what type of extenal monitor do you use?

Gee something so simple as hooking up an external monitor to view video from the timeline which used to be such a simple thing before HD and LCD came along is now as Bob says "gone South" on the other hand it has gone North ....cost

Look forward to some more replies

Lee
Downunder

What are you trying to monitor?
I thought from your initial post you wanted 16:9 SD.

If that's what you're after then a 16:9 SD CRT monitor has got to be the go, if you can still find one. Most LCD monitors suck at displaying SD from their composite inputs.
As Glenn says above though have you tried calibrating the thing properly.

Bob.

if I purchase an Intensity Pro and connect straight to the LCD monitor via HDMI I will get the perfect HD image from the Vegas timeline out through my LCD monitor?

Vegas Pro 8.0c and as I posted earlier the Intensity Pro emulates the BlackMagic Decklink card in Vegas... it isn't specifically identified as an Intensity Pro and doesn't get mentioned as being supported in Vegas or supporting Vegas in the BMD literature... there are other threads here indicating that other people are using it though. The clincher for me was its compatibility with FCP and related software as well as the new ProTools LE 8 on MacOSX (unfortunately though not under Windows)

To answer your other questions, I'm using a Panasonic 76Cm widescreen CRT that accepts 1080i via component inputs. It's not a broadcast monitor and predates HDMI so component is the only option for HD and good quality SD.

I've tried the Intensity Pro with both SD 16x9 PAL captured via firewire from my old Sony PD150. Of course I could output that via firewire but it outputs better from the Intensity Pro because my deck only has S-Video or composite analogue out.

I have tried replaying 1920x1080 50i Apple ProRes files captured and transcoded originally in FCP via Log and Transfer from my AVCHD camera's SD card. They replay identically from the Vegas timeline via the Intensity Pro to the external monitor as they do in FCP.

I've also tried importing some of the AVCHD into Vegas and replaying it on the timeline but still get the jerky replay of AVCHD files that has made me jump ship to FCP for editing now that I shoot AVCHD. Still the images replay in HD on the external monitor with equal jerkiness as they do on the preview....that speaks for consistency if nothing else ;-).

Bought the Intensity Pro from the Video Guys as they were offering the best price I could find online in Oz.

Would love to try it on an LCD with HDMI inputs but the budget won't stretch that far at this point in time....

New Hope Media

Concerning CRT screens: when HD really kicks the airwaves, won't these screens be useless ?
I'm not there yet but seems to me that HDMI friendly hardware would be the best hasslefree and all around solution..? Maybe with V10...?

You are right Bob yes I do want widescreen SD but I also want to be future proof and have an external monitor that will also show HD as well.

I have never seen a widescreen CRT, who makes (made) them?

Yes I had spent some time calibrating the monitor and trying different imputs. with only very slight improvement but it still looks cra#p

What a great article Glenn put together very helpful (thanks).

So far I agree with you Bob LCD and SD do not like each other. Although our family SD widescreen plasma TV with a SD set top box connected has a great picture so much so that I am not rushing out to buy a Full HD plasma just yet..

Lee
Downunder

Concerning CRT screens: when HD really kicks the airwaves, won't these screens be useless ?
Most channels broadcast will still probably be SD... because you can stick more channels in.

Also, there's a lot of people watching cable and DVDs.

Or let's put it this way: As long as it works well enough, people will still use it. This is why Umatic is still being used in some niche applications.
People will likely hang onto CRTs as long as they can still put out a picture. They are also better at displaying SD than LCDs.

I have never seen a widescreen CRT, who makes (made) them?

Sony, Panasonic, Blaupunkt...to name a few, though not so much these days as they have been superseded by LCD and Plasma. Because these are analogue devices they generally don't have HDMI. Broadcast versions, which cost ten's of thousands of dollars, have SDI interfaces.

Most channels broadcast will still probably be SD... because you can stick more channels in.

that's certainly the case here in Australia and some channels, ABC in particular, will only transmit HD in 720P because of the same multiple channel considerations... less bandwidth = more channels.

Will give the Intensity Pro a more detailed test in Vegas over the coming weekend and post here if it has stability problems. It certainly doesn't have them in other apps.

Thanks Steve "Newhope"

I look forward to your test results on the Intensity Pro with 8.0c

Will you ever go back to full time editing with Vegas if they fixed ACVHD?

I have just noticed that you are not far away from me Downunder

Lee

If Vegas implements AVCHD that can play at full frame rate without jerky results, or incorporates transcoding on import the way FCP does and at similar speeds I may, for my corporate production, where I don't generally interact with other editors.

I've been a Vegas user since Vegas 4 and have loved the program. I still use it for some of my work but that is usually audio only production where ProTools is too cumbersome or reliant on realtime bounce to disk.

My professional audio work is predominantly ProTools for film and video because it's what I use in other facilities and it has the tools needed for the work.

FCP has benefits and downsides but I am increasingly enjoying the integration of software like Motion, Color and DVD Studio... though I personally can't stand Soundtrack Pro.

So Vegas is still on my list and I keep my eye on this forum.... though I spend less time booted into Windows these days.... and can't say I miss that at all.

Ive been a Vegas user since the original release and have made my living with it ever since. We have released numorous productions via broadcast ( SD and HD) as well as DVDs through various labels worldwide. I have always lacked in my color correction mostly due to improper calibration from monitors and what not. I despreratly need a rock solid preview method for my editing to do profesional color correction and grading. This preview through the camera firewire is bush league and I dont want to spend thousands of dollars. I need to preview to and HD monitor for real world HD consumer best viewing. I keep hearing that it should work, it might work, the BM Intesity driver is still clasified as beta for Vegas. I need to get this situated like yesterday. I am not a Vegas hater, I love it but I could sure use some help with this. No speculation just real world answers. Would be nice if a Sony rep might grace us with an answere.

L.T.

Hear Hear LT

So come on Sony (& BM), add this missing link to Vegas to make it truly "professional" (and improve the AVCHD)

I am sure there will be MORE SALES for both companies if they got together and not dilly dallied around with Beta drivers which I understand has been going on now for a few years.

Lee
Downunder

Well I spent a little time working with Vegas this morning and testing the Intensity Pro card.

I'm running Vegas Pro 8.0c on a Mac Pro with two dual core Zeons 3GHz and a visible 2GB RAM (actual 10GB) in Windows XP SP2. Intensity Drivers are the new Version 3.0 for Windows. Yes I know BMD indicates I should be running SP3 and Vegas Pro 8.0b but I have serious issues with installing SP3 and had reverted to SP2 prior to getting the Intensity card.

Note: The Intensity Pro appears in Vegas as a BMD Decklink card and does NOT indentify itself as an Intensity Pro.

First thing to say is that I haven't had any issues that I would attribute to the Intensity card. My system's performance with HD video though is somewhat less than wonderful in Vegas. (It's quite OK in Mac OSX with FCP so I suspect that Windows XP needs a full reinstall but NOT NOW!!!)

The only HD footage I have to test is 1920x1080 50i Apple ProRes 422 ex FCP.

Imported this footage but only achieved frame rates of about 16fps so can't give a serious report about how the Intensity Pro performed other then to say it worked without any crashes and allowed me to edit with both Preview on the computer on and off. BMD website suggests having Preview OFF.

I tried some multicam with the HD footage, which is what I'm doing with it in FCP, and it performed at 16fps as well as a single video stream but again I can't testify to the actual quality because of the poor frame rate performance.

Having less than perfect results in HD I decided to load a SD project shot on DVCAM with my PD150. It's a fairly busy edit with 14 video tracks to accomodate graphics and multiple layers of vision nested with drop shadows, you can see the original on my website. It's the http://www.newhope.com.au/theatre.html[b]Jones Lang Lassalle[b][/link] video which is the second video in the gallery and was shot and edited in 4x3 back in 2004. All of the editing and post was done in Vegas (on a P4 3.2GHz PC) except for the multilayered blue screen of the plane over the building which I used After Effects to achieve.

The Intensity Pro replayed the project, after rendering, better than it looked via firewire on my external monitor. I can switch between both as I still have the firewire connected. The difference is that the firewire is connected as S-Video, it doesn't have component, and the Intensity Pro is component with digital SP/DIF audio. I can play the rendered project at 25fps with the Preview monitor on or off. I am using the BMD ASIO drivers to achieve sync audio with the external monitor via a digital coax input to my audio amp.

So my brief assessment is that with SD video the Intensity certainly is working for me in Vegas. I think my HD problems are a part of my Windows installation on the Mac Pro and the current limit of availble RAM it can access under BootCamp.

Becuase of pressing work, where I do need Windows functioning but don't need Vegas, I won't be attempting a reinstal any time soon. When I do I'll try this all again meanwhile I'm back to FCP where HD does play at full frame rate and the Intensity Pro works with ALL of my video editing, audio editing/mixing, colour correction and compositing software.

That's not a detraction to Vegas because the revisit to try these tests reminded me of how much I like it... it's just that it isn't working for me in HD at present and I'm not sure any longer, other than the well documented AVCHD shortcomings, whether the fault is Vegas or my Windows installation.

New Hope Media