Fades disappear when merging events

AlanMintaka wrote on 10/18/2019, 8:54 AM

Hello all,

I'm using VP 17 build 321. Platform is Windows 10 Home 1903 (up to date according to Windows Update).


I've created two a/v events and have applied fade-in fade out to all tracks at the beginnings and ends of both events. The fades are equal in length for all video/audio tracks.

The two events are separated by a blank interval of a few frames and I want to merge them. Here's the problem:

If I select all the tracks on the second event and move it to the left until it snaps to the end of the first event, the fades disappear.

However if I select all tracks in the first event and move it to the right until it snaps to the beginning of the second event, the fades are kept. I can then select all tracks in both events and move them to the left to the beginning of the timeline. The fades are still kept.

This workaround doesn't answer the question of why the fades disappeared when I merged the second event to the first, but not when I merged the first event to the second.

Anyone know why this selective deletion of fades is happening?

 

Thanks for your time,

Alan Mintaka

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Comments

NickHope wrote on 10/18/2019, 12:25 PM

It sounds like some of the ends of your events are not truly quantized.

Firstly, make sure your project frame rate is matched to your media frame rate. The button at the very top right of the Project Properties window can help with that.

Open the internal preferences by holding SHIFT while you click Preferences (in the Options menu). Click the Internal tab and type "quan" in the box at the bottom. Change the 2 preferences to TRUE.

If any event ends on your timeline are then highlighted in bold red, it means they are not quantized.

To quantize them, make sure Quantize to Frames is turned on (top item in Options menu), then zoom in on the ends of the events with your mousewheel, grab the end of the event and it should snap to the nearest frame.

AlanMintaka wrote on 10/18/2019, 1:31 PM

...make sure your project frame rate is matched to your media frame rate. The button at the very top right of the Project Properties window can help with that.
...Open the internal preferences by holding SHIFT while you click Preferences (in the Options menu). Click the Internal tab and type "quan" in the box at the bottom. Change the 2 preferences to TRUE.
...If any event ends on your timeline are then highlighted in bold red, it means they are not quantized.
...To quantize them, make sure Quantize to Frames is turned on (top item in Options menu), then zoom in on the ends of the events with your mousewheel, grab the end of the event and it should snap to the nearest frame.

Hi NH,

Thanks for those pointers about the "show unquantized event" settings. I never would have known where to look for those or that they even existed.

Sure enough, every event in the project was highlighted in red. Per your instructions I can get the end of the event to snap left or right by one frame, which makes the red highlight go away.

So far so good with fade behaviour - all seems fixed now.

BTW, the frame rate for the source media was 29.970p and the project was set to 24p. Clicking on "Match Media Video Settings" changed the project rate to 29.97p. That must have been part of the issue and now I know enough to keep an eye on it.

I take it this is the way fast/slow motion effects are generated, if the event's end is moved multiple frames either way? In the case of slow motion by "stretching" the event, where do the extra frames come from?

Fascinating stuff, all good to know.

Thanks again, NH !!!

 

 

 

NickHope wrote on 10/18/2019, 11:19 PM
BTW, the frame rate for the source media was 29.970p and the project was set to 24p. Clicking on "Match Media Video Settings" changed the project rate to 29.97p. That must have been part of the issue and now I know enough to keep an eye on it.

So the root of your problem is that the frame rate in your project properties did not match the frame rate of your media. I recommend you set it so that your project properties change to match the first media dropped on the timeline. See part 2 of this post for how to set that up.

Note that by quantizing in the way I said, after the media was already on the timeline, you may have lost a single frame at the end of many of your events if the end snapped to the left rather than right (right being the end of the media).

I take it this is the way fast/slow motion effects are generated, if the event's end is moved multiple frames either way?

No, in this case you're just trimming or extending the event. To get fast/slow motion you have to stretch the event, which you can do by holding CTRL while you drag it, or by changing the payback rate in the video event properties (accessed by right-clicking a video event).

In the case of slow motion by "stretching" the event, where do the extra frames come from?

Frames are duplicated, or new frames are interpolated between the existing ones, depending on the setting of "Resample mode" in your project properties.

AlanMintaka wrote on 10/19/2019, 8:38 AM
...I recommend you set it so that your project properties change to match the first media dropped on the timeline. See part 2 of this post for how to set that up.
...Note that by quantizing in the way I said, after the media was already on the timeline, you may have lost a single frame at the end of many of your events if the end snapped to the left rather than right (right being the end of the media).
...No, in this case you're just trimming or extending the event. To get fast/slow motion you have to stretch the event, which you can do by holding CTRL while you drag it, or by changing the payback rate in the video event properties (accessed by right-clicking a video event).
...Frames are duplicated, or new frames are interpolated between the existing ones, depending on the setting of "Resample mode" in your project properties.

HI Nick,

Great info, thanks again. I'm setting up a doc folder for this stuff in my Vegas projects folder.

RE losing a frame at the end of the event: all of the affected event ends did snap left. However, because of the way I had edited these events, the loss (or addition, actually) of a single frame is irrelevant. However I'll keep this in mind if I have to do this again - I'd probably never perceive the drop of a single video frame, but in the past I've noticed the drop if it's in the audio tracks.

RE project properties matching source media: I had gotten into the habit of answering "no" to that prompt for some inane reason. That won't happen again, at least not until I suffer another bout of idiocy (usually every 10 minutes, or about the length of my attention span). This is why I'm keeping that doc folder on a short mental leash.

RE resampling: These days my capture source is almost always 1920X1080 pixels 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS Progressive, 14.7 Mbps (from MediaInfo report). This is courtesy of a Roku Ultra connected by HDMI to a Hauppauge Colossal PIA 2 (oops, I mean "Colossus 2") PCI card.

I'm using Vegas/DVDA to make Blu-Rays and my preferred rendering profile is 1920-1080-24p, 16Mbps. So there's always a change in frame rate, and I never did anything about the resampling options. I'll definitely experiment with resampling off. I could use shorter rendering times, if possible.

RE fast/slow motion: I already do a lot of things by accident on that damn timeline, mostly via random tics when I'm using the mouse. I probably use CTRL-Z more than any other command. Now, if I see any unwanted fast/slo-mo effects, I'll at least know how it might have happened. I'll probably never add fast/slo-mo effects deliberately, unless you convince me that Vegas can be used to actually slow down the passage of time.

Once again, valuable advice for which I am extremely grateful.

Looks like I also need to work on streamlining my posts....

Have a good one,

Alan Mintaka

PS: if there are better chimp-capable, affordable capture devices than the Hauppauge Colossus 2, I'd love to know about them. The Hauppauge video cap is OK, but the audio cap can only do 2 channels in HDMI (optical caps are worthless). Meanwhile Hauppauge mfg support is nonexistent; only real support is via other users in the VideoHelp forums.

Streamlining, right.