Thanks for the info.

I also received the Vegasaur e-mail on 3/11; "VEGAS Pro 15 FLASH SALE!"

With the text;

Black Friday deals started early at VEGAS: Save up to $200 all month!

VEGAS Pro Edit Buy new $199 Upgrade $149

VEGAS Pro Buy new $399 Upgrade $199

VEGAS Pro Suite Buy new $599 Upgrade $299

Kind regards,
Vegasaur.com Team

I am interested in buying the the Vegas Pro Suite for $299 especially because of the added NewBlue Titler Pro 5.

But now I have the following doubts/questions before making the deal. Perhaps you recognize this;

- Wat do I get from this bundled software from NewBlue? Is it a limited version? Or is it exactly the same version as buying from NewBlue direct? Is it a special 'unarmed' version for this FLASH SALE? Do I have to buy extra's to work with it in a normal way? Can I take to the next Vegas16? Or is it limited only for V15 use? Since I am not well informed in advance I still hesitate closing in.

- First I bought V14 especially for the ProDAD Mercalli V4 stabilizer and the CMOS Fixr and I cannot move it to next V15 version. Now I am hold to use V14 for this. If Magix told me in advance that this was the purchase policy, I would never bought this. But I was not informed in advanced and now feel mistreated. (My message about this was taken off-line since the thread was so-called 'closed').

I loved to see Magix making clear exactly what you get in advance, like;

- What is the exact version for their bundled software in the offers? Full, limited or especially "Offer" created?

- Are there any restrictions or limitations in the use of?

- For how many computers can I use it? Is it the same policy as Magix?

All normal questions to make a proper decision. So I still don't know what to do. Anyone having the same feelings or issues about the new bundled software offers?

I wrote to NewBlue, Boris and Magix when Vegas 15 first came out (before realizing the vegas phone-home issue). This is what I received back:

Magic reply Sep 5th 2017

The bundled products are supported in the version of VEGAS they are bundled
with.  We are not able to guarantee future version support for each bundled
product.  

NewBlue reply Sep 7th 2017

Thanks for your interest in our products and for getting in touch.  Typically our bundled products will only activate in the version of Vegas the are bundled with.  But in this case, you will receive full retail versions of Filters 5 and Titler Pro 5 respectively that will indeed work in later versions of Vegas as well as other editing applications.

Boris reply Sep 7th 2017

if you purchase the license then you should be able to use it with future versions.

So I would definitely ask the vendors about any bundled products to check that the version is fully functioning and not tied to a specific version of Vegas. Note that NewBlue Titler is now up to version 6. Hope this helps.

Hello Kit-As-Was,

Thanx for your message and info. Yes this helps. So Titler Pro 5 is the normal version and will be working as expected. That good to hear!

The Boris bundle is not necessary for me but their reaction shocks me. You get it with the V15 Pro Suite but also have to purchase a license for future versions of Vegas. That means it is locked to V15 only. Hmm, It is pitty that you first have to ask for this. It would be nice if this was clear from the start. Is this something to ask Magix for from now on?

Back to NewBlue's Tiler Pro 5, in my NewBlue account I got 100$ CREDIT $$$ for Titler Pro 5 making it 199$. And for Tiler Pro 5 Ultimate 250$ CREDIT $$$ making it 249$. Meaning I am still better off with the Vegas Pro Suite for 299$. So that's truly a good deal!

I checked the NewBlue site and yes your right, Titler Pro 6 is there. It looks good and I now feel I have to decide to go for the Magix Flash Sale with the old Titler Pro 5 or tune in for the new Titler Pro 6. Now I prefer TP6 over TP5 making the Flash Sale a little bit less interesting. Right now for TP6 there is no options to upgrade from previous version. Although there is a check box for a coupon code. A coupon code might be out there or coming later this year.

Based upon your information my conclusion now is that as soon there is a new software version out the previous one is old. Making this the Flash Sale for Vegas Pro 15 Suite for me not worth to go for anymore as from now. I think I am better off with VP15 only and waiting for upgrade or coupon offer for the new TP6. That said, since the new features for Vegas 15 are not so hugh I prefer to stay with V14 and my restricted ProDAD Mercalli V4 stabilizer and the CMOS Fixr (actually it still is a bloody shame not to tell in advance) and wait for Vegas 16 hoping it will support straight MKV import support because above all that's what I really looking for. I don't need faster render times. I want better (full) container acceptance since this is now getting more common for editors.

So, I 'm out, it's now fully clear to me. I go for NewBlue Titler Pro 6 and wait for a new Vegas version bringing me what I really need. No Flash Sale for me this year.

Thanks again for your information, that is a great help making a proper decision.

P.S. if anyone have upgrade or coupon info for the NewBlue Titler Pro 6 I would love to hear that.

P.S 2. Perhaps Magix can offer bundles to choose for yourself. And this in a dynamic way and also with clear notice of all restrictions or limitations if there are any.

+1 for transparency and full disclosure. but i guess that's +1 dreaming ... ;-)

Well, talking transparency, I strongly believe Magix has nothing to hide for us. As it was with Sony earlier, also making camera's, which was, and still is, fringing. Look at Canon, still making Powershot and Eos M camera's not filming in 4K. That is not realistic anymore but own market protection only.  And for Magix this doesn't count. They are software makers and they have a reputation to hold. I have always been in a good relationship with them.

The problem here is different, I think. Nowadays we are in the position that NLE's does 'almost' everything what we wanted for a long time. Also the recent available hardware is not limiting us anymore. AMD TR x1950, GTX1080, X399 MoBo with 128GB, M.2 high Speed SSD 1, 2, TB, you name it and you can have it all. For a price off-course.

Magix is a normal solid company and need to satisfy their stakeholders with annually returns. That is a common business principle right?  And we, the users, on the other hand, don't want to buy every year again our new version -of whatever- software. I.e. Windows, Office, Antivirus, NLE, etc. etc. So this is fully opposite from what companies want, and need also. An workable solution for this has always been, adding new functions, codecs, stability and looks etc. to the new version so that we are tempted with our own dreams and wishes to rock the wallet again.

To me, it looks this is now coming slowly to an end becoming a problem for companies like Magix, having almost everything what we want in NLE's. Adobe has make the move to a Netflix strategy and more companies are thinking or moving towards this. Like ACDsee is now allowing you to choose what suits you. For me, being tight at monthly fees for software is a terrible idea. I simply don't like it.

So, back to Vegas, Magix and transparency, I think it is not in the transparency but more in the need how to evolve, or even grow, with a new attractive version of Vegas nowadays? In a way that we really want it and are wiling to pay again? And again and again.. 

I see the following solutions or insights for this and I will share these with you so you can let me know if this makes sense at all;

1. The time to pay large amounts of money for any NLE has come to an end since there is so much free alternatives. This is a very painful process for any company but also new reality and here to stay. We've left the days behind of exclusivity and very expensive programming experts. Let's digest this for a moment. I have been working with PaitShop Pro all my live and I like it a lot. Evey year Corel attempt me with a new version which, in the end, I always buy for a strong reduce price. Something like 39 USD for an upgrade and 'Flash Sale'. If it was DonationWare I problably would pay the same amount for it. With Vegas now, Magix is holding the same old price levels as from Sony. That's because to bought it recently. The current problem however is that the Sony price levels for Vegas are not relevant anymore. And or fitting in the Magix portfolio. Vegas needs a fully new and competetive pricing. That hurts for an investor which want to make money from it asap. They have to overlook the actual situation and accept the time we're living in now has changed. Instead of easy making money every year they now have to focys on a longterm based relationship with the customers (from Sony). I have always liked Vegas, and the fact that is is now from Magix is a hugh step forward for finally developping new standards for Vegas. I will never walk away from Vegas. But as a consumer I am in the ongoing process how much 'newly wanted' I get for my bucks. The actual price for the cheaperst Vegas now is still to high. If it were Donationware I would probably buy it and pay something like 79 USD for VP15. Well that is my reality. (or 6.50 USD a month? :)). I love to pay but normal prices. So, to summarize this, here Magix has to accept their financial strategy for buying and actual earnings is way more complex then expected because calculations has been made on old -non actual- visions and knowlegde. This is not a shame by the way but it is very painfull.

2. Make an Magix Vegas Pro 3th party store (or app store - I seriously hate the word app used for programs. Sorry for that.) so one can create 'live' their bundle with all connected software, like i.e. Vegasaur, Boris, NewBlue, there are dozens of companies out there. And with combining any program you see your discount in your basket! For older versions and for the newer version (like NewBlue Titler Pro 5 vs. Titler Pro 6). And, of-course, with full transpanry about what get and what you don't get. So to summarize, offer flexibillty with 3th party programs to maintain the relationship.

3. Do not bring up a new version by finacial need (shareholders) but by logic and powerfull enhancemants. So you are not in the wrong position to sell something which isn't really much different or better from the previous one. Now we see the marketing and sales department bringing us a new deal, and a new deal, and a new deal, and a 'Flash Sale. And whatever may still come this year. It is not us! It is your mistake! Take us, your customers serious, we are not stupid! A far from that. We see the sale struggle and know where it comes from. Don't blame us for that we all are not buying a not so fully newish product. We, the ex-Sony Vegas consumers, have always been a pain in the ass for Sony. And also a very loyal and commited Vegas comunity to! That is the crux! So Magix (and Gary of-course) has our commitment and loyalty, as it was with Sony, but also our criticism. Do not rush, make Vegas as good as you can, and then bring it out whenever it is the right time. Not the calculated moment you economically need from your investors. So to put it in one simple line; If it is good and the price is right - Yes, we buy it! 

4. Is there a fourth I can think of? Well I can go on for hours. What about the misguiding sale of VP14 with the ProDad programs tight to VP14 only? It has been said, and said again, and the thread been closed by the Forum Moderators (why?) but we will never forget it. It is a oneway strategy on which you will loose our credits for. Don't do that! Again it's you, not us!
And what about your Forum itself? I feel so much control from Moderators over unwanted text which is not leading to better sales figures or helping people out. But who's Forum is it? Your Forum? A sales vehicle trying not to show that? Our Forum? Where we can say what we want? In a decent way and respectfull manner? It is important that we can connect with each other and learn from our thoughts an actions. Even if you don't like this as a company, you still can learn a lot.

5. Magix. Vegas. Yes we - the good old Sonyans- like you! We like that you took it over from Sony. One time Vegas, always Vegas! We will always like Vegas! Vegas is the best out there for a lot - the good old Vegas community, and the newly born addicted ones-. And yes we will buy it from you! Again and again and again! We don't run away from you. So treat us nice! No misleading please! Give us transparency about what we get! And full disclosure! Give us proper prices! Give us the bundles we really want! Let us choose! With actual programs and older versions! Whatever! And we gonna pay for it! And you gonna like us - again! It is not high mathematics or complex!

I've finally taken the time for what I wanted to say for a longer period of time. These are my thoughts and suggestions. I hope it makes sense, please let me know what you think..
 

very well said @ParadiseBird,

while we're waiting for the old Special to wear off and the new specials (Cybermonday,..) to re-emerge, here's a letter I'd thought I'd share to Customer Service, as this somehow relates to the FlashSaleBundleProliferation issue at large..:

Dear Magix Team,
I am considering the upgrade from VP14 to VP15. 
NB Titler was part of VP14 'Pro' bundle, but no longer is in this version, as it is now a part of the comparatively more expensive 'Suite' bundle.
I am concerned that 3 months into the current release cycle, NBTitler5 has now become a one-generation-behind bundled product, and as such I cannot expect any more customer support or updates for this product.
This reminds me very much on the pain and frustration experienced when we had to fight to get NBTitler3Express (2 generations behind, crippled version) somewhat working in VP14.
Q: Will Magix offer its customers a current version of NBTitler (=6) in its premium 'Suite'-bundle in the current software release cycle or continue to offer cheap unsupported out-of date plugins that are limited to a particular version of Vegas?

..Let's just see what the answer is on that one..

Re. Shareholder returns Vs Hostageware:

If you read the Magix EULA it becomes very obvious that Magix is committed to an annual product cycle due to its 12-months limited product support. So, DO expect a 'new' version to come out every year. being half-baked or not, you WILL have to upgrade if you want to have support. But I guess that's somewhat fair enough, considering the Adobe Hostageware alternative.

Re. Prices and Functions, One would have thought that the powers to be at MagixHQ would have started the process of merging their 2 leading NLE's (Vegas & Movie Studio) to one powerful product, hence saving programmers and improving capabilities and functionality;

I could very well see a model where you have to 'unlock' and 'authorize' various modules of an NLE, and ideally Magix would incorporate some established code (like NBTitler, Filmconvert..) into theirs natively. This way you could avoid the annual 3rd-part update drama, produce inhouse, generate more income due to mergers & acquisitions, and thus finally keep the shatholders happy ;-)

Re. Prices and Functions, One would have thought that the powers to be at MagixHQ would have started the process of merging their 2 leading NLE's (Vegas & Movie Studio) to one powerful product, hence saving programmers and improving capabilities and functionality;

I could very well see a model where you have to 'unlock' and 'authorize' various modules of an NLE, and ideally Magix would incorporate some established code (like NBTitler, Filmconvert..) into theirs natively. This way you could avoid the annual 3rd-part update drama, produce inhouse, generate more income due to mergers & acquisitions, and thus finally keep the shatholders happy ;-)

This is already happening - see Magix MusicMaker. There is now only one version of the main program and the basic version is free, but Plus and Premium version simply unlock more features. Or, you can unlock only what you need from the free version upon payment for the feature. Of course, it is much more cost effective to purchase in bulk (Plus or Premium) than to start unlocking and paying for features.

John CB

re. Old Titler Bundle:

Thank you for your message.
The third party plug-ins bundled with Magix programs normally will stay the same until next version released. That is to say, we probably won't offer a current version of NBTitler in the current release cycle.
--
Best regards,

quote: Magix service desk.

..here we go again...