Frustrating: the Vegas name and marketing

CDM wrote on 8/30/2002, 5:29 PM
This is extremely frustrating:

All day long I've been working with a bunch of high-paying corporate clients recording voice-over for a flash presentation for Aetna. During a break we were discussing how bad most video people are with audio and then segued into a conversation about studio video services, at which point I was asked if I work with video as well as audio. I took this opportunity to confidently say, "why yes, I can do any form of DV production you wish: editing, compositing, audio sweetening and mixing. In fact, the system I use far surpasses any I've ever seen or worked with in audio features and useability. And for video editing, it's simple, fast and powerful."

"oh really, what do you use?"

"Vegas. By the same people who make Sound Forge," I say smiling. Here's my chance to land some new video clients.

Blank stares. In fact, frowns over the name when they hear it, meaning: Vegas? That sounds like a toy. On a PC? Also, sounds like a toy. Never heard of it.

What can we do about this??? It's so frustrating knowing that if I could just get everyone working on a corporate presentation, dv project, or indie film in here to actually SEE me using this thing, that I would have everyone converted in a second and have a bunch of new clients. The problem is, they want to hear the words: Final Cut Pro or Avid.

I'm a good salesperson for an engineer. In fact, very good. But I still get broken when I see that face which says "never heard of it."

Frustrated,

Charles.

Comments

CDM wrote on 8/30/2002, 5:41 PM
oops. Sorry. I see there's already a long thread about this. Just venting!

Btw, I love the names: Anvil and Media Forge.
BillyBoy wrote on 8/30/2002, 6:44 PM
Thats asinine. And it seems you are shading your remarks to reflect YOUR views. You also seem to have a problem with using a Windows based computer, calling it and software than runs on it a toy? If true and it sounds like it, you've been brainwashed... a common ailment of Mac users, many of which run around with their noses out of joint. Also funny since Macs do indeed look like toys, coming in many bright colors, making them into ugly cubes, etc..

I haven't met a client yet that gave a crap what tools you used as long as you got the job done on time and done a good job. Afterall, that's supposedly why they came to YOU in the first place. When you take your car in for service do you demand to go check the mechanic's tools and see who made them?

Its mindnumbing to me how some people are so obsessive over the name of software and somehow got it in their head if the name isn't what some client expects, you should hang your head and maybe hide under the desk in shame.

Did these "clients" give your clothes a once over, did they question where you got your desk, demand to know what car you drive?

Of course the 64 dollar question is, how do you think changing the name to Anvil or Media Forge would change a thing. Those snooty clients you talked too would still remain clueless.
Blackout wrote on 8/30/2002, 7:23 PM
Untrue..im afraid.

The first thing new clients ask is "what equipment and setup are you running...pro tools? Premiere?". Charles' comments are totally justified.

What i dont get still is why magazines such as Computer Video that do "rundown/comparisons" of video editors...never list Vegas? its no-where to be seen, they always ignore it. If it was in there, it would blow the competition out of the water...perhaps this is why they leave it out?

CDM wrote on 8/30/2002, 7:59 PM
Billy Buck -
Unfortunately, this is where the limitations of writing vs. talking come in (one of the things that tends to wreak havoc on this forum). You misunderstood. First of all, I'm as pro PC and Anti-Mac as they come. It's just that I do live in the real world (no jab meant there!) and clients of this sort, who don't get around much and believe what people tell them (and that still tends to be that Macs are for graphics and media and PC's are for offices...), still tend to be skeptical when you're not using "industry standard" stuff. Vegas has been out for a while now and the real point of my email was to illustrate that the marketing has been unfortunately poor and I just hate it that I know that Vegas is so much better but I just wish I could just show everyone.

no, you're right, changing the name at this point wouldn't help. It just need serious recognition and so Pro looking ads. I'm good at having people ignore what I'm using and looking and listening to what I do instead, but still, it wouldn't hurt if they weren;'t saying, "he's great but I don't know the stuff he's using..."


anyway, that's my point
BillyBoy wrote on 8/30/2002, 8:28 PM
First thing new clients ask is what equipment and setup are you running...pro tools? Premiere Industry standard stuff?

ROTFLMAO!

Amazing. By the way, this isn't email and who is Billy Buck?

OK, I'll try to be serious for a minute. Are you guys trying to say you're "pros" and in the next breath you're suggesting you're ashamed to say what product you're using in spite of the fact you love it and it really boils down to the name of the product? Now I've heard it all. Sorry, this is so silly, I can't be objective or serious on this.

Got to go, I'm desperately looking for the AMD sticker that came with the motherboard for the main PC I'm using. You see right now the computer case is stark naked, no name tag, just a plain box, and that's so tacky, what will anyone think if they see it, is surely would reflect badly on my reputation and experience.

ROTFLMAO!

Tyler.Durden wrote on 8/30/2002, 9:59 PM
Hi Charles, Blackout,

Sadly, name-recognition has been an issue in the industry long before NLE's hit the market. Too many agency-types and posers have relied on buzz-words to hedge their bets, banking on the notion that houses that could afford the most expensive gear would have the best operators.

We all know what a cartload of cowpies it amounts to, but jobs and clients have been missed 'cause of lesser-known brands on fine equipment.

The best answer I can offer is to have a killer reel ready to hand them when they ask about yer work. It's no guarantee, but it might break through, and the work is what counts.

Same goes for market acceptance... Like the software? Make great stuff wit it and get it out there. M100, edit*, Sound Forge and many others didn't get recognition until they hit the air and raised eyebrows.

Sidebar: I have friends who bought the cheap avids to get clients in the door. They didn't use em to edit with at all. They'd say: "Yeah, we got avid, but this other rig is better"... or they didn't say anything at all, and just kept the avid mousepad in view; the client none the wiser.

Marketing hype can only get you so far... sure it would be great if Vegas got the big-buzz, but SoFo ain't got the $$ like MS, or the fairy-dust Steve Jobs flings about. It will just take time and folks with the guts and talent to build a reputation using the tools.

Keep rockin, make great video, have fun...


Regards, MPH
CDM wrote on 8/31/2002, 1:01 AM
Billy Boy -
sorry -
I believe there was a Billy Buck here at some point so I thought that's what I read. Sorry Billy Boy. Anyway, I'm not arguing "pro" anything. That's what pisses me off so much about these forums these days - this sort of name throwing-around, resume touting. I don't care whether you know I'm pro or not. I have no reason to come here and have you justify my professionalism. I'm perfectly comfortable with what I do and don't do. What I don't do that much of is Video, but I would love to do more now that I know what a powerful tool VV is. As an audio app, I've never had to justify it. I just use it and blow people away. But as a video app, people tend to want to know what they're getting into a little bit more, or at least that's the way it seems from my (audio) perspective. The only point of my post was that I find this situation frustrating. Why is that offensive to anyone? Vegas should be conquering all and so far it isn't, based on this reaction from NYC producers. This happens all the time and I just wish it weren't so. Ads only go so far, but they do go, and that's why Coke is #1 - because they spend the most $ on advertising money. Call me shallow.

whatever. I just want people to say, "Oh, I've heard that's quite good," instead of, "What is that?"

anyway, if this is going to become a miscomprehended post that turns into a battle of the egos, forget it.
sonicboom wrote on 8/31/2002, 1:55 AM
in the future, just say---you use to use pro tools and preimere--but you use vv3 because it is way way better!!!
that simple
sb
seeker wrote on 8/31/2002, 2:36 AM
Charles,

It is unfortunate that your original message was miscomprehended. It seemed clear enough to me. And I agree with your point of view and share your frustration with this whole situation.

> I just want people to say, "Oh, I've heard that's quite good," instead of, "What is that?" <

Me too. Perhaps you could point them to Charles White's 5-page review:

"Vegas Video 3: Digital Video Editing Hits the Jackpot"

Or, to Deras Flynn's review:

http://video.multimedian.com/reviews/vegasvideo3.html

Or to David Hague's early review:

http://www.creativecow.net/articles/hague_david/vv3_review/

Knowledgeable people who have actually tried Vegas Video realize how good it is. Now we just need for there to be more knowledgeable people. And, in particular, we need for lots more people to purchase Vegas Video, to build a big user base and get some name recognition. Then we can get some Vegas books on the shelves alongside all those Premiere and Final Cut books.
CDM wrote on 8/31/2002, 8:43 AM
SB -
Nice. That is simple and elegant. I don't have too much of a doubt that these people will be back to do some video work, but nonetheless it was one of those moments where you just wish people had heard of it.
CDM wrote on 8/31/2002, 8:49 AM
those are good reviews. Thanks.
BillyBoy wrote on 8/31/2002, 9:02 AM
Its like this... who gives a crap what a couple of bone headed NYC producers think?
Reminds me of that numnut Simon on American Idol (a Fox TV hit this summer) who constantly tries to project himself as the ultimate music authority, frequently attempting to discredit the other two judges and only manages to come off as a pompous ass.

Vegas Video is the name of the application. Get over it. Its only a name. If anyone thinks using it reflects badly on them, then they are not very professional. Not even close, at least not in my never humble opinion.
winrockpost wrote on 8/31/2002, 4:45 PM
Who cares what people think,, long as it does the job, load an Avid desktop, have your avid mousepad and wow them with your Vegas software
vicmilt wrote on 8/31/2002, 8:32 PM
With everything digital changing on a minute by minute basis, the best way to handle a situation like this is to say, (with consternation and amazement),"You haven't heard of Vegas???? It's the BEST! I love it.". End of conversation. Most people who are hiring video editors (especially corporate execs), haven't the slightest idea of what you do, or how you do it. If it looks good, meets the necessary specs, and is done on or before the deadline, you're in, and you'll work again. I dealt with this in 1988 when we began to shift editing from film to video, again in '91 when we shifted from 1" to Beta, again in '93 when we started doing "on-line" with the first AVID Media Composer and on, and on, and on, 'til a couple of years ago when we started producing in DV, and 'til now with Vegas.
Remember - don't admit you're lost, accept a computer crash or freeze as normal, and never, I mean NEVER say, "Whoops".
Good luck.
vicmilt wrote on 8/31/2002, 8:34 PM
With everything digital changing on a minute by minute basis, the best way to handle a situation like this is to say, (with consternation and amazement),"You haven't heard of Vegas???? It's the BEST! I love it.". End of conversation. Most people who are hiring video editors (especially corporate execs), haven't the slightest idea of what you do, or how you do it. If it looks good, meets the necessary specs, and is done on or before the deadline, you're in, and you'll work again. I dealt with this in 1988 when we began to shift editing from film to video, again in '91 when we shifted from 1" to Beta, again in '93 when we started doing "on-line" with the first AVID Media Composer and on, and on, and on, 'til a couple of years ago when we started producing in DV, and 'til now with Vegas.
Remember - don't admit you're lost, accept a computer crash or freeze as normal, and never, I mean NEVER say, "Whoops".
Good luck.
Spirit wrote on 9/1/2002, 12:34 AM
Marketing and ad people live and breath BS. They can spend weeks fussing over names, taking logos to focus groups, debating intricacies which are completely irrelevant to the usefulness of a product. So of course they react to names and brand recognition, that's what they do. And if these are the people dishing out the work then be prepared to play their game ! I do, and I hate it, it's as much as I can do not to leap up at some meetings and say: "Why am I wasting my life listening to this s**t ?!"

Names are totally subjective. That's obvious, and maybe some people think Vegas Video is great. But in my opinion Vegas Video is an absolutely appalling name. The "Vegas" part has connotations with gamblng, bright lights and seedy holidays - there's nothing positive, uplifting or professional about this word. The "video" part is just dull. No, worse than dull, it makes Vegas audio users look stupid. It looks as if they're using the wrong product. If someone came to clean my carpets and turned up with a bottle of something labelled "Car Wax" I'd be very sceptical.

And if anyone thinks names don't count, well, try swapping names and brands around in your daily life and see how reactions change. Next time someone asks you where you got your clothes say "Charity-Church Surplus", and as for what music program you use say: "DJ Barbie's Glamour-Time Studio".

Names do matter. And Vegas Video is simply a bad name.
CDM wrote on 9/1/2002, 12:45 AM
Thanks Spirit. Well said.
Cheesehole wrote on 9/1/2002, 3:03 AM
>>>"DJ Barbie's Glamour-Time Studio".

LOL :) okay you've one me over with humor. seriously, you've proven that some names could never be cool. but isn't this really a marketting issue? can you really change a name mid-stream? does anyone know of any successful products that used to be named something lame?
seeker wrote on 9/1/2002, 3:41 AM
Coke used to be Coca Cola. And then there was "New Coke". Fax used to be facsimile.
Chienworks wrote on 9/1/2002, 8:46 AM
Seeker: those examples are just shortening, not really changing. People are always abbreviating. We already see "Vegas" and "VV" through these forums. How about "Vegeo" and "Vegio" for the audio folks? Now those are really bad names ;)

There are cases of replacing longer words/phrases with shorter ones that aren't just abbreviations. Automobile became vehicle which is now universally called car. In French, the phrase "la fin de la semaine" has now been replaced with "weekend", even though many French speakers may not know what the words week and end mean. In any case, it's a natural tendancy of us lazy humans to shorten names.

Names do count for a lot though and may affect the perception of the product. An audio tech associate of mine decided to go digital multitrack recently and even though he's been a loyal Sonic Foundry user for many years, he purchased ProTools because he never even thought of looking at Vegas Video for his audio needs. When i sat him down to show him Vegas running on my computer he was amazed to see all the audio features. Now we both wish i had given him the demonstration a week earlier.

People who are facing problems because of the Vegas Video name may be encountering silly problems that can be worked through easily. However, the point is that these silly problems are still problems in the real world that they shouldn't have to be facing to begin with.
John_Cline wrote on 9/1/2002, 9:17 AM
I can't believe that this thread (and the other one) has gotten so much attention. It's called VEGAS, get used to it! My clients come to me because of MY name, the name of my editing software has never been an issue.

You can always find some other less-capable NLE software with a name that suits you (or your clients) and buy it, or you can write your own NLE software and then you can name it anything you'd like.

John
CDM wrote on 9/1/2002, 10:03 AM
Maybe I can end this thread here: my point wasn't so much that I want the name changed, but more that after all this time it would be nice if Vegas had more name-recognition. I think marketing has been poor and not geared toward Pros.

I love Vegas and I use it about 8 hours a day. I don't like the name but I'm also not sure changing it now would help.

People are fickle and paranoid, unfortunately. I'm not saying that my seemingly (in the pro-audio world) unorthodox choice harms me the majority of the time, which it doesn't. It's just even those occasional once every few months kind of things that really get me.

wcoxe1 wrote on 9/1/2002, 2:39 PM
Lets just settle on Vegamatic and put this all to rest, what say?
GeorgeLucas wrote on 9/2/2002, 12:56 AM
Names do count...By the very fact that so many of you are reading this post, I make my point.

Vegas does need more aggressive "pro" penetration. Noone in Hollywood has heard of it, despite its design excellence.

The fastest road to the top for Vegas will be file interchange and compatibility with the systems that ARE sought after today...The AVIDs, ProTools, and SoftImage's of our world.

Once Vegas can easily and efficiently start and/or finish projects borne of or destined for these other popular platforms, it will become as ubiquitous.

Is a 24p HD version anywhere on SF's horizon by any chance?

George