I've not had the issue with older versions of Vegas, just laggy preview. But when i do, I will surely thank you. it just started snowing; time for some winter ale . . .

[I]Geebax, it means that several people believe they can unpack flatline gamma to delivery status in Vegas by hand with no reference, guides, or presets, and achieve consistent results. Not only am I skeptical, I tried it myself, and got what I wanted visually, after hours of tinkering.[/I]

I tried loading Hero4 footage into Vegas 13 for the benefit of the OP, as he asked if it could handle it.

However, I do not work that way, I load the Hero4 Protune material directly into Resolve 11 and do the work I want on it in Resolve, much the same as I process my BM Pocket RAW footage through Resolve. I then export a high quality intermediate to Vegas for editing.

Interesting. Does Resolve have log correction specifically for Protune, or is more one size fits all?

Geoff's workflow

I asked in the DV Info Cineform forum if I was losing anything by adjusting GP video in Vegas versus in GoPro studio. Newman responded that the Vegas workflow I used was fine. A terse response to be sure.

He responded that he always uses Studio Premium to color correct, as he never like Premiere for that and the Cineform edited better in Premiere than direct AVC. He also said, the GoPro Media team used Resolve for color correcting but did not go into detail about their workflow.

[I]Interesting. Does Resolve have log correction specifically for Protune, or is more one size fits all?[/I]

Resolve really does not know what Protune is at all, so you have to do all the work yourself, but having come to grips with Resolve, it does not take me very long to correct the footage back to what I would like to see.

The reason I use the Protune mode in the first place is because it applies less processing to the picture and seems to assist with highlight recovery.

I understand that people are daunted by Resolve, and I admit I had something of a headstart by having worked as a colorist in the past, however once you get to learn what Resolve can do, it becomes almost second nature to grab it every time you see a piece of footage that you are not satisfied with. Like everything, learning it is a case of persistence...

...that and 'bothering' the application sufficiently often that it gives up its secrets.

I have recently started to use Red Giants Magic Bullet Looks for colour grading inside Vegas 12.
I have always liked Vegas's colour correction options since I started using Vegas 10 several years ago.
After attending an event for Magic Bullet Looks I decided to try it out & I think it is absolutely fantastic to use.
For me, the biggest advantage is that I can do all of my Grading inside Vegas as MB is just a plug in so once it is applied I just click on edit MB settings & the amount of options is great.
Fairly easy to get a grip on & very powerful.
It offers a lot more finer processing than what Vegas can offer.
I absolutely love the workflow of using Vegas as my timeline editer, The plugin of Magic Bullet for grading & then rendering an uncompressed intermediate & final render in HandBrake for very high quality deliverables.
I have chosen to use Protune for the higher bitrate & more latitude in editing.
I am finding myself enjoying the colour grading process immensely now with my new workflow & will be sticking with this for the foreseeable future.

I am playing around with Gopro Studio at the moment, mainly just to learn how to use it for reference really.
It seems a good option for someone starting out or someone with very little interest in Grading as it is pretty limited but it gets the job done for most people I suspect.
Cheers Pete.

didn't know protune presented issues? I just drop gopro clips in vegas, correct, and grade like anything else. protune records at higher bitrate also, assisting quality

If that's really what your doing, you've passed over most of the benefits of Protune.
If only people would read the literature [sigh].

just after a good looking image... doesn't have to be rocket science.
benefits I can see are better image, improved range, adjustable kelvin, sharpness, ISO

Musicvid, would you care to expand on that statement?
My current workflow is giving me excellent results.
I find the GoPro overexposes the Highlights a little but by using Protune I can set the EV to minus to help with that & then with Magic Bullet I can pull the highlights right down if needed.

What part of the workflow is missing out do you think?
Cheers Pete.

Oh this is so simple.
Native Protune is wrapped 8 bit 420 1.0 gamma. It's not ready for Vegas yet.
Unpacked Protune Cineform is full 10 bit 422 2.2 gamma. No losses, no voodoo. Just good science.
Vegas has no way to recognize the added information packed in Protune; it reads the flags AFAIK.
So what we get in Vegas is generic HD quality, except it is unusably flat.
Its the difference between 4k resolution and uhdtv quality, which is what we're actually after.
Given the choice, which one would you want to grade, or at least use as your starting point in Vegas?

I've seen not one test and lots of fairy dust in this thread. Curious, isnt it?
Read the literature, post direct comparisons from Vegas between native Protune and Protune Cineform source, including evidence of bit depth, chroma subsampling, and actual gamma, and we'll talk. Anybody?

Its the difference between 4k resolution and uhdtv quality

What does that mean?

You can have 4k resolution at any bit depth and chroma subsampling. Such as 8 bit 4:2:0. They are not mutually dependent.
UHDTV delivery quality is generally accepted as 10 bit 4:2:2, if i read it correctly.

So, to clean up my statement, it's the difference between 4k at HD quality, and full UHDTV.

Musicvid, are you saying that Vegas is reading the Protune files as 8bit 420 colour but Resolve can somehow unpack the Protune container & there is a 10bit 422 colour space inside for editing?
If so, now you have me super curious.
I have tried to play with Resolve light a couple of times but gave up.
Maybe it is time to learn Resolve.
Is there something that Resolve needs to do or is it able to unpack this 10bit 422 colour just by importing alone?
Oh & where do I find this literature you mention?
I am very curious now to read up on it & learn how to extract a 10bit 422 colour space out of Protune.

Is there no way that Protune can be unpacked & imported into Vegas as a 10bit 422 colour space?
I appreciate your time in passing your knowledge along.
I thought Protune was just recorded in a higher bitrate & a flat image so it didn't crush the blacks too far already.
Cheers Pete.

I have no idea what Resolve does. That's what I asked geebax, remember? I know what GoPro studio does, and that's pretty impressive, regardless of what some think of GoPro's contrast choices.

"Is there no way that Protune can be unpacked & imported into Vegas as a 10bit 422 colour space?"

Yes, as Cineform from GoPro Studio. That's how they designed it.

The link to the links are 22 posts up.
Again, and absolutely for the last time, cineform.blogspot.com starting October of2012.

Oy vey.

[I]Native Protune is wrapped 8 bit 420 1.0 gamma. It's not ready for Vegas yet.
Unpacked Protune Cineform is full 10 bit 422 2.2 gamma. No losses, no voodoo. Just good science.[/I]

This has me puzzled. David Newman, the guy who led the development of Protune gives a good explanation of Protune in his blog that musicvid10 referenced: http://cineform.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/protune.html

But it does not mention anything in the explanation about somehow packing 10 bits of information into the Protune file. What it does mention, is applying a favourable log curve to the sensor information that permits preservation of additional stops of dynamic range.

This would be why Resolve can handle the Protune file, as I would suggest there is no mysterious packing going on, just the high bitrate MP4 file (therefore containing less coding artefacts) with a clever log curve applied. There is no preset in Resolve to handle the Protune file, but it appears to be quite manageable anyway.

It is true that GoPro Studio gives you the option of processing and then saving the file as a 10 bit 4:2:2 YUV AVI file, which would be easy to decode than the original MP4 file. However this is providing your system has the necessary HDD read performance, as the file can grow in size by about 11 times in the exported AVI format.

Thanks Guys.
So to make certain I have the correct workflow for unlocking the true Protune colour space, I import the files into GoPro Studio, convert the clips from MP4 to .AVI & render out as a Cineform .AVI which is infact a 10bit 422 colour space?

Where I am confused a little....& I have now read through those links, but does Protune actually record 10bit 422 & Cineform just unpacks the file to it's native 10bit 422 or is Cineform just encoding an 8Bit 420 file into a 10bit 422 file?
If so, then I can do that in Vegas.

I just rendered the same clip out as a Cineform .AVI with a file size of 154MB & also rendered it as an MP4 clip with a clip size of 20.8MB, so there is obviously a huge difference in file sizes.
Cheers Pete.

Geebax, That first article explains putting 12 bits of information on the 8 bit Protune curve. Fascinating stuff. The follow up article demonstrates how GoPro Studio restores that information. Were it not for codec limitations, I believe we could actually get twelve bits (nearly 12 stops!) back, but instead settle on an editable format, and yes, cineform carries a full 10 bits of camera information.

I realize now that a lot of people are still in "discovery mode" and think Protune can be used to its potential out of the box. A reasonable expectation, but this isn't the case.

That said, I apologize if I've been a bit impatient. We all start in the same place; knowledge does not come built-in.

I think before continuing with speculation, everyone should read the discussion Bob and I had two years ago, and the things we discovered together while learning about this new technology. I think my useful contribution to this thread has run its course, so i'll stop posting, and I'll wish everyone a terrific New Year, full of learning and success!

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=844144

is that second pic of "Unconverted" also uncorrected? TO ME, (granted, I admit I am no colorist) I found it simple to match up those two pics, even tweak it in other ways too. White balance, contrast, bright were off. I am sure converting it is the proper way to do it, but if I get 95% the way there faster with my workflow, I'd rather save the time. BUT, I'm not doing commercial work, just fun "art" for me and limited audience :)

https://copy.com/gsPjdvsS8ANJVArl *

* Obviously there is only so much one can push with a small reduced res picture

I love the smell of challenge in the morning! :D

Here's a Vegas frame grab of Protune gopro 3+ Black, but I think I keep gopro color ON, not skipping to fix in post - maybe that is the difference: i still get the benefits of wider range, higher bitrate, adjustable sharp, but the color is already done like the conversion. I've found the color spot on that way. For example: White Balance was perfect - it wanted to add a pinch more RED which I disliked and skipped, the room looks exactly like that - I work there, been in it a million times and the look and colors are right. I'm totally happy with this right out of camera: I could go strait to grading - skipping correction, and it would be fine. But I like to double check it. In this case it was nearly perfect according to eye and scopes.

unfixed image @ 2.7k res, protune, gopro 3+ black

https://copy.com/L4G8xTcRjjgMbjHA

almost no correction, graded a little for the project I'm working on

https://copy.com/3og7wbh0BvgpG2PH

*oops! Looks like I should pull the RED back a tiny bit - the guy looks like he was slapped