Has anyone used the Apollo switcher/recorder by Convergent Design?

YesMaestro wrote on 12/21/2018, 8:48 AM

I just got it and in preliminary tests (under 5min) everything worked fine. But I just used it on a shoot that had a bunch of interviews and I am getting significant audio drift over time. I read in the manual about that but I thought it pertained to using different camera models but I am using the same 3 cameras.

The audio is approximately 20 frames to over 1 sec longer than the video (depending on the length of the interview). I tried doing a time stretch by holding the Ctrl key and shortening the audio to the end of the video (and even shorter) but it did not help.

The video is ProRes LT at 30p and the audio is 48k

I am currently having to split the audio every minute or so and adjust the audio to get it back in sync.

Any suggestions is greatly appreciated to make this editing nightmare more tolerable.

Paul

Comments

NickHope wrote on 12/21/2018, 10:09 AM

You could disable Vegas' native codec and use the Quicktime decoder. Guidance here: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-can-i-bypass-the-magix-prores-decoder-and-why--106418/

Please report the issue via a support request.

Any chance of sharing a sample file that shows this issue? That would help Support too. If you record a clapperboard or visible clap at the start and end then quite a short clip might be enough to demonstrate the drift.

YesMaestro wrote on 12/21/2018, 12:13 PM

Thanks Nick. I am currently using V13. I bought V16 but it is crashing on startup and I have not had the time to figure out why yet. Here is a link for the smallest file I had.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gj5wi2oae6iqph8/CLIP0000041_QSLS.mov?dl=0

Marco. wrote on 12/21/2018, 12:27 PM

"I bought V16 but it is crashing on startup"

Do you have current build 352 installed? This could help if some plug-ins would cause the crash.

j-v wrote on 12/21/2018, 1:06 PM

I did download your file and added that file to an emty project in VPro 15 latest build with my default settings.
There I see that the audio is 11 frames longer than the video.
Than I switched the used audio driver in Options/Preferences/Audio Device to the one that was installed with my Soundforce Audio 12, added first the file to Project Media and than added it to the timeline.
Now it is normal.
I show here the screenshot with the timeline zoomed in very much to see clearly the last frame of the video and audio. Those are equal in lenght.
You could try another audio device in Preferences also, maybe it helps you.

Last changed by j-v on 12/21/2018, 1:20 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

YesMaestro wrote on 12/21/2018, 1:35 PM

j-v is the audio in sync at the end of the clip? I tried adjusting the audio device but none of them worked. All I have are the 3 basic types as you can see. I have Soundforge Pro 11 installed but nothing comes up for that. Probably because I do not have a separate audio card installed.

j-v wrote on 12/21/2018, 2:11 PM

With me that that audio device is not making the difference but the way to add the file to the timeline. When I directly add it from the explorer there is a small difference in audio and video lenght of the event, but when I first add it to the Project Media and than add it to the timeline there is no difference as I wrote before.
See my video example

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

YesMaestro wrote on 12/21/2018, 2:43 PM

I tried it the same way you did and the audio is still longer than the video. It could be because I'm using V13.

But more importantly, is the audio in sync with the video thru the entire clip?

Former user wrote on 12/21/2018, 3:07 PM

I opened it in Version 12 and the sync appears to be fine. I did have to run in Administrator to get it to open. V12 uses QT for decoding. QT 7 also holds sync fine. the audio track is 11 frames longer though.

j-v wrote on 12/21/2018, 3:15 PM

But more importantly, is the audio in sync with the video thru the entire clip?

I can't controle it exactly because it is not my native language, but you may try my rendered audiofile yourself by downloading it from my dropbox where it will stay for 1 day.
This is the link to that file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrivag5ffsvyp6i/For%20YesMaestro.wav?dl=0

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

NickHope wrote on 12/21/2018, 11:56 PM

I'm seeing the sync problem with VP13 (qt7plug), VP16 (mxhevcplug), and in MPC-HC. I think the problem lies with the file and not with Vegas. The video stream is read as 30.000fps, but I bet the container/audio thinks it's 29.97fps.

I can "fix" it by ungrouping the audio from the video, holding CTRL and adjusting the length of the audio stream. Not sure why you say that doesn't help for you.

But there are multiple problems here. If you pause during hand movements you can see interlacing artifacts.

And to add to that, the native Vegas decoder in VP16 pixellates it in the same way as footage from the Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q.

All in all, a bit of a mess.

Can the device record 29.97fps? Try that if it can. Are there progressive vs interlaced settings. Also check online for new firmware for it, and get onto Convergent Design Support about these issues. If that doesn't help, I would consider returning it if it's not too late.

YesMaestro wrote on 12/23/2018, 2:13 PM

Nick, I checked with the sales rep and he said that I do have the latest firmware. All cameras have to have the same output setting. I am using 3 Panasonic FZ2500's so I set them to AVCHD 1920x1080 30p. They are each connected to a Blackmagic HDMI to SDI converter which is fed into the switcher/converter. I made sure the camera output matched the record rate of 30p.

Yes it can record 29.97 and interlaced. I will try that and see what happens.

I am aware of someone using the same setup but is using GH5's and has no problems.

How far did you have to shorten the audio (using the ctrl key) to get it back into sync? I tried up to several seconds but it was still off.

NickHope wrote on 12/24/2018, 2:20 AM

I checked the B&H specs for that camera. 30.000fps (which your sample file is) is not an option. So you need to set the subsequent devices in the chain to match the 29.97fps of the camera, if they can.

You probably want to keep a progressive signal through the chain if possible. But because of the interlacing artifacts in your sample, it looks like one of the devices is introducing interlacing.

How far did you have to shorten the audio (using the ctrl key) to get it back into sync? I tried up to several seconds but it was still off.

11 frames. i.e. Just ungroup the audio stream from the video and CTRL-drag it until it matches the length of the video stream. That's about 11 frames. You can check with the "P"s when he says "early adopter program" near the end.

I'm convinced this sync problem is simply due a mis-match between 30 and 29.97. If you do the sums for this clip it comes out at near enough 11 frames:

365 seconds x (30-29.97) = 10.95 frames

In summary, try and set all the devices in your chain to 29.97 progressive.

NickHope wrote on 12/24/2018, 2:26 AM

p.s. Unfortunately for this existing clip, I couldn't get any combo of frame rate and field order to look free of interlacing artifacts.