How to Crop a Source Video that is already split and Cropped?

Phil_P wrote on 9/16/2021, 2:00 AM

Greetings,

Sorry if the title is a little confusing. Was not 100% how to word this tbh.

I guess this could be a bit of a discussion rather than just an open question.

Scenario:

  • I have created a tutorial video which features a full screen capture of an application (done in various takes)
  • I have finished editing the video in full, split, fades etc.
  • Some of the split parts have pan/crop applied in order to zoom in on certain areas of the screen
  • I then realise that my original video has the top menu bar area of the screen cut off, as it is usually not required but in this case in certain areas it looked confusing without the menu bar being visible

So what I needed to do was to use a screen shot of the full application (which included the menu bar) and find all the areas where the menu bar needed to be visible and move the actual footage down a certain number of pixels in order to reveal the menu bar at the top.

Of course, the issue with this was that the various crops make the screen a different sizes, so I then have to resize / crop the screenshot of the menu bar in order to match it up.

I was trying to think of a way to apply the menu bar fix to the entire original video so that I would only have to match it up once and then, for example if the screen had been zoomed in, the menu would have been zoomed in accordingly.

I have finished the job now (and rendering, hence the time to make this long post) and I kind of kludged my way through it all making individual adjustments where required. But I was wondering if there may be some solution to do the above.

I thought about removing all crops and rendering the original with menu bar included then applying all crops again but it just seemed like a heck of a long way around. And all the crops are different sizes.

Of course the key here is that I should have planned more carefully ahead and made sure the menu was visible from the start of capture. (And indeed I have now set this up for further use, as these will be regular videos for a company).

 

I do hope that description makes sense.
 

So. If you are all still awake after reading this :-) I would like to ask. How would you have done this? Is there some little magic fix that I have overlooked or forgotten about?

Cheers, P. :-)

Comments

Grazie wrote on 9/16/2021, 2:25 AM

Greetings,

Sorry if the title is a little confusing. Was not 100% how to word this tbh.

Nope, understood the Title . . moving on . .

I guess this could be a bit of a discussion rather than just an open question.

Works for me.



Scenario:

  • I have created a tutorial video which features a full screen capture of an application (done in various takes)
  • I have finished editing the video in full, split, fades etc.
  • Some of the split parts have pan/crop applied in order to zoom in on certain areas of the screen

Yup, got that.

  • I then realise that my original video has the top menu bar area of the screen cut off, as it is usually not required but in this case in certain areas it looked confusing without the menu bar being visible

Ah, need a ScreenGrab to assist me.

So what I needed to do was to use a screen shot of the full application (which included the menu bar) and find all the areas where the menu bar needed to be visible and move the actual footage down a certain number of pixels in order to reveal the menu bar at the top.

Again, SG, please?

Of course, the issue with this was that the various crops make the screen a different sizes, so I then have to resize / crop the screenshot of the menu bar in order to match it up.

Yeah, I've got a "feeling" that you're well into the World of P/C and that's where your issue is coming from - Again SG, please?

I was trying to think of a way to apply the menu bar fix to the entire original video so that I would only have to match it up once and then, for example if the screen had been zoomed in, the menu would have been zoomed in accordingly.

SG please.

I have finished the job now (and rendering, hence the time to make this long post) and I kind of kludged my way through it all making individual adjustments where required. But I was wondering if there may be some solution to do the above.

Could be, and yes, need some illustrations, please. Look, we ALL start somewhere - I'm doing this too.

I thought about removing all crops and rendering the original with menu bar included then applying all crops again but it just seemed like a heck of a long way around. And all the crops are different sizes.

Sure, that;'s a way. I'm also thinking Nested Veggies too. 😉

Of course the key here is that I should have planned more carefully ahead and made sure the menu was visible from the start of capture. (And indeed I have now set this up for further use, as these will be regular videos for a company).

Well, yes, planning, BUT if you don't know of another way you couldn't plan, so no harm done. You're here now. Let's get Cooking!

I do hope that description makes sense.

I'm getting there too!

So. If you are all still awake after reading this :-) I would like to ask. How would you have done this? Is there some little magic fix that I have overlooked or forgotten about?

Cheers, P. :-)

Come on! Let's get cookin'!

Phil_P wrote on 9/16/2021, 2:36 AM

Haha. Hi @Grazie thanks for your reply. I was about to mention you in another thread that gave me a chuckle earlier. Very nicely written:

in reality, all they are doing is putting another thick layer of Red or Purple or Green Lipstick on that very same Pig


I will supply some screen grabs of course once the project has finished rendering. Thanks again.

Grazie wrote on 9/16/2021, 3:07 AM

Haha. Hi @Grazie thanks for your reply. I was about to mention you in another thread that gave me a chuckle earlier. Very nicely written:

in reality, all they are doing is putting another thick layer of Red or Purple or Green Lipstick on that very same Pig

@Phil_P - thank you very much! I’m doing Afternoon Matinees Everyday at 1:35 in the Hawaiian Cocktail Lounge - Be there Or Be XXXXX!

Phil_P wrote on 9/16/2021, 3:38 AM

Thank you very much! I’m doing Afternoon Matinees Everyday at 1:35 in the Hawaiian Cocktail Lounge - Be there Or Be XXXXX!

Tickets booked!

(nb. Still rendering)

Phil_P wrote on 9/16/2021, 4:27 AM

Hi again. Ok here is some more detail.

(1) First a shot of the Vegas Timeline that shows where all the cuts are:

(2) This is what the actual video looked like originally. With menu bar missing. (Sorry these are large 4K files):

(3) This is the picture I took later of the application that included the menu bar at the top:

(4) And an example of one of the edited clips (there are many) where the video (2) was zoomed in to show the top area (but this is still full screen in the render) I then had to add the menu bar to this:

So to summarize:

I already made all the edits and cuts before realising that I really need to show the actual menu bar in a number of places.

All the original recordings were done like screenshot (2) above.

I imported screenshot (3) above and moved the original video (2) down so that (3) peaks through behind it at the top of (2) showing the menu bar.

I also had to do this for screenshot (4) many times, and this meant also adjusting the cropping and size of the screenshot (3) that contains the actual menu bar.

I was wishing there was simple way (that I will remember for the future) to have made the adjustments to the video (2) to include the top menu from (3) throughout all clips even if zoomed in and that the top menu would have scaled with it.

This is tough one to explain in simple steps, sorry for that. I could make an actual video explaining it I guess.

Anyway the job is done and has been accepted but being able to do this would have saved a lot of time and would have made the end result more accurate.
 

My best, P.

 

Grazie wrote on 9/16/2021, 6:16 AM

@Phil_P? From sample two onwards, what NLE are you using? There’s some really nifty controls I’m not aware of? If they are in VegasPro…. I know nufink!

Phil_P wrote on 9/16/2021, 6:17 AM

It is Steinberg Nuendo. (That is who the walkthrough is for too) :-)

Grazie wrote on 9/16/2021, 7:53 AM

Ah, righto. Is it possible to load a few seconds of the area you’re wanting to remedy - please?

However, I really do think, not knowing any more, it’s about time you’d dip your toes into the World of Track Motion and Nested Veggies. It would be so much more flexible and controllable. P/C is great, but this workflow is something else again.

Phil_P wrote on 9/16/2021, 8:02 AM

However, I really do think, not knowing any more, it’s about time you’d dip your toes into the World of Track Motion and Nested Veggies. It would be so much more flexible and controllable. P/C is great, but this workflow is something else again.

:-) I am using Track Motion and Nested projects etc. in various ways in other projects. I've been with Vegas since the old Sony days. And my usage is very varied. Film, TV and Music Video edits etc. (In fact the application that this tutorial is about, is what I use to compose film scores and sound design etc.)

But in this case it is a tutorial walkthrough and it was just something I overlooked while recording and then finished the edits and then it occurred to me that someone here may have a quick way to do this if it ever happens again.

I can send you a link to the video with some time stamps out of interest but it is a unlisted at the moment, until the release date so I can't post the link here.

Thanks again @Grazie

:-)

Grazie wrote on 9/16/2021, 11:05 AM

@Phil_P No worries 😉

lan-mLMC wrote on 9/16/2021, 4:50 PM

Apply a PIP fx in media fx level to cut off your menu bar area.

Phil_P wrote on 9/17/2021, 2:54 AM

Apply a PIP fx in media fx level to cut off your menu bar area.

Thanks Ian, I had tried that originally and thought it was the solution but the (still) graphic with the menu bar doesn't scale with the cut areas that are zoomed in on the timeline.

Phil_P wrote on 9/17/2021, 3:08 AM

I suppose I could have summarized this much better to make it clear:

  • You have Video A on your timeline which is already split and zoomed in various places (in fact there are multiple splits and zooms and multiple different takes)
  • You have a still Photo B which contains an area you want to overlay onto Video A
  • You want to move Video A down by a 25 pixels so that Photo B shows at the top of Video A (in this case PIP does this great)

But the issue is that there are zoomed areas of Video A. And the Photo B also needs to be zoomed to match that. (For example when zoomed in to show only the very top corner of the screen).

So I did it manually. By zooming Photo B to match. But to do it throughout the entire project like this would have taken a loooong time. So I just did few important parts.

So I guess what I am missing is a way to lock the PIP at Media level so that when Video A is zoomed (pan / crop) Photo B will also follow that.


 

Phil_P wrote on 9/17/2021, 3:36 AM

Here is a better example:

So let's say the project size is 800 x 600 (it isn't really I have just cut it down for this explanation):

First screengrab is actual size 800x600

Second screengrab would be one of the zoomed in cuts, overall it is still 800x600:

So the photo A part that is showing at the top is still in place and at the correct magnification.

I used Copy Attributes to copy the crop factor from video A to photo B on my timeline to make this easier. But still a lot of work...

Anyway it is done now.

gary-rebholz wrote on 9/17/2021, 9:07 AM

@Phil_P, I'm not sure I fully understand what you're trying to do, but if I do understand, then what you might try is to include the two components as children to a control track. Then use the Parent Track Motion tool to manipulate your image. Because both tracks are children of the Parent, the changes on the parent will affect the children as a unit.

Phil_P wrote on 9/17/2021, 1:03 PM

Hi @gary-rebholz thanks ever so much for your reply. I know this thread has become an example of how difficult it can be to explain things sometimes.

  • I made a bunch of narrated screen recordings for a tutorial
  • I then made lots of edits including zooming in on certain screen areas
  • I then realised that the original screen recordings were all set to have the top menu bar cut off as in past videos viewers rarely needed to see it. So it was wasted screen space.
  • So, I had to go through the entire video finding all relevant areas and adding the menu bar back (by using a screen shot of it and moving the video down to accommodate it)
  • But of course the areas where the screen was zoomed in required different zoom (crop pan) settings for the menu bar.
  • My goal was to find out if there was a way to do this more automatically. Like tying the original recordings and screenshot together somehow. So that all my edits and zooms would match.

I think your suggestion would surely work great and if I have to do anything like this again, that will be the way to go.

Anyway, I really appreciate the replies and would say there is no need to waste any more of anyone's time on this one.

When time permits I will make short video showing exactly what happened, as it will make sense then I am sure.

Thanks again. :-)

 

gary-rebholz wrote on 9/17/2021, 1:45 PM

Yes, that's what I understood you to be saying. The parent/child approach would make this incredibly much easier. No need to futher explain for my benifit!

Phil_P wrote on 9/17/2021, 1:46 PM

Thank you Gary. :-)