How to prevent auto-resize? What's the point of "disable resample"?

VideoVibrance wrote on 10/5/2023, 8:48 AM

How do we prevent Vegas from assuming we want our media to fill the screen, when there can easily be situations where we make a picture a certain size and we just want it to stay that predetermined size when we lay it over something else in the video, without having to REsize it back to that size in the editor, especially when we can't easily match it perfectly since the neither the cropping tool nor picture-in-picture use direct pixel-to-pixel sizing methodology (cropping looks at first like it will, but then it's actually ass-backwards)?

So what's the freaking point of the "disable resample" feature if it's not going to work, or if it's doing something completely different from what we think it's supposed to be doing? Why can't we just put a medium in there and then ONLY have it fill the frame if we check-mark something like "Scale to frame size" like we could in Premiere (except that I bought this because of how, if I want to upgrade from my very old version of Premiere to the current one, I can't just buy it again; gotta rent it)? UGHHH! What was Sony's, and now your, problem that they and you couldn't have just made the features work as intuitively as Premiere's?

Mike
Vegas Pro 17, build 455
Windows 10, 22H2

Comments

Dexcon wrote on 10/5/2023, 9:12 AM

How do we prevent Vegas from assuming we want our media to fill the screen

In Project Properties, make sure that "Adjust source media to better match project or render settings" is not checked:

For more information about this setting, click on the '?' icon in the top of the Project Properties window which takes you to the Help information explaining the Project Properties settings.

"Disable resample" has nothing to do with image size. Again, read about disabling resample options in the Help document via the '?'.

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RogerS wrote on 10/5/2023, 9:13 AM

Resampling is about what happens with frame rate mismatches. If you have 24 frames per second and a project that is 30fps how should it make up the missing frames? It has nothing to do with scaling.

Under preferences/ editing, uncheck "automatically crop still images added to timeline." I work with photographs a lot and VEGAS works fine for me.

Premiere is only intuitive if you already know how to use it. Trying to animate a slideshow there was one of the most frustrating things I have done in years (eventually gave up.)

 

VideoVibrance wrote on 10/5/2023, 9:29 AM

Under preferences/ editing, uncheck "automatically crop still images added to timeline." I work with photographs a lot and VEGAS works fine for me.

Premiere is only intuitive if you already know how to use it. Trying to animate a slideshow there was one of the most frustrating things I have done in years (eventually gave up.)

 

No, this isn't about cropping. That's not the same thing as resizing. Cropping just determines how much of something to cut off without changing its overall size ratio. My crop thing was already unchecked and doesn't have any effect on how overall big an image (and video would be included if it were resizing) shows up when you drop it into the timeline.

Also, something isn't intuitive if you had to be taught how to understand it right, so if it requires that you already know how to use it (meaning that someone else had to teach you or you had to look in the manual, etc.), then it still wasn't intuitive. But Premiere was plenty more intuitive than this crap. With Vegas I've had to read and watch so many more explanations on how to do something that should've been so simple than I've ever had to do with Premiere. But I haven't tried to animate a slideshow on it.

Thanks for your time and effort, though.

VideoVibrance wrote on 10/5/2023, 9:37 AM

How do we prevent Vegas from assuming we want our media to fill the screen

In Project Properties, make sure that "Adjust source media to better match project or render settings" is not checked:

I already tried that and it also doesn't do what it sounds like it might do. Have you actually tried it and somehow it worked for you: in other words, a smaller medium didn't just fill up the frame, and a bigger one exceeded the frame?

You're sure it's not just some kind of thing that has to do with compression, interlacing/progressive, or/and perhaps pull-down from a film, etc.?

RogerS wrote on 10/5/2023, 9:49 AM

VEGAS crops the image and resizes to fit when that box is checked so those functions are related.

Let me be clear on what are you trying to do? You just want to display media at a 1:1 ratio (pixel perfect) on the timeline regardless of its size relative to the video?

VideoVibrance wrote on 10/5/2023, 9:53 AM

VEGAS crops the image and resizes to fit when that box is checked so those functions are related.

Let me be clear on what are you trying to do? You just want to display media at a 1:1 ratio (pixel perfect) on the timeline regardless of its size relative to the video?

Yes, I just want to bring in something that is, say... 500-squared... and have it show up on the video AS 500-squared not 1080-squared, but OVER the 1920 x 1080 picture. Why should dumb Vegas make that so hard?

And if that's the supposed job of that check-box then why doesn't it work? Have YOU tried it and somehow it worked, or is that just something you've heard about and passed along?

RogerS wrote on 10/5/2023, 10:19 AM

I agree, it's not easy (unless I'm missing something).

As a sanity check I just did the same thing in Photoshop- 1920x1080p canvas and brought a 500p image in and stuck it in the corner.

With the same 500p original image in VEGAS I went to pan/crop and right-click select source aspect. Then I went to height in pan/crop and set it to 1080p to match the project (the actual aspect ratio of the image isn't 16:9 in this case, it's taller so I selected the tall side.)

I imported the Photoshop image and put it under the VEGAS one, lined them up and it's exactly the same size. To move the small image around freely now, use track motion (track level).

Consider adding "disable resizing of still media" to the feature requests thread: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-feature-requests--134374/

Last changed by RogerS on 10/5/2023, 10:23 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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VideoVibrance wrote on 10/5/2023, 10:30 AM

I imported the Photoshop image and put it under the VEGAS one, lined them up and it's exactly the same size. To move the small image around freely now, use track motion (track level).

Consider adding "disable resizing of still media" to the feature requests thread: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-feature-requests--134374/

Wow, all these versions down the road from V1 and Sony and then Magix never managed to adopt such a simple and useful feature from Premiere as "scale to frame size..."--or DON'T--so we're still having to fiddle around with the opposite-acting Pan & Crop or the fractional-decimal-estimation-based Picture in Picture when we could've just had a little box to UNcheck for all these decades (I just got Vegas in 2019 but haven't used it much until now, for some odd life-story reasons), UGHH. How insane! OK, well... so glad the only way to do it by pixel count is to reverse-engineer the way Pan & Crop's silly methodology works, ughh!

Thanks, I'll put that in their suggestion box and then hope they give me a free upgrade if that ever comes out, ughh.

john_dennis wrote on 10/5/2023, 10:40 AM

If you're using Photoshop to size your media already, the most direct way would be to expand your Canvas from 500x500 pixels to your Vegas project pixel dimensions 1920x1080 and save to .PNG with transparency. The media will come into Vegas at 500 x 500.

VideoVibrance wrote on 10/5/2023, 12:01 PM

If you're using Photoshop to size your media already, the most direct way would be to expand your Canvas from 500x500 pixels to your Vegas project pixel dimensions 1920x1080 and save to .PNG with transparency. The media will come into Vegas at 500 x 500.

Wow, that's so much more work than anyone should ever have to go through just to get around a feature that they can't turn off simply by unchecking a box like they could in the software that they don't want to have to rent! But I suppose it would have to do for things that need a transparency. Anyway, thanks!

And THEN: as for things that don't need a transparency: I liked the video that you just posted, about just setting that weird thing in Pan & Crop to the video project's frame size. I was trying to work out the math on that... "Let's see... do I add the frame size... hmm... nahh... wait... do I just...?" But I could only find that video on my phone where I got notification, rather than on my desktop computer, so it was hard to see what you were doing (and the somewhat snarky wording in your reply didn't help, but that's just a small side item), but then it just dawned on me as I was getting ready to move the video to my computer because I couldn't find it through the e-mail anymore: I set up a 3840 X 2160 project and a 1920 X 1080 rectangle with an outline, then put a 3840 video under that, then did the P&C frame thingy on it, put it to the video's frame size, and... voila! Well, just to double-check myself, I did the approximation in PiP (which is exact there too, in this case, because of the chosen still picture dimension), and it looked the same! So I was like, "OH! You just set that weird mesh thingy in P&C to the project frame size, and... there ya go! So... oddly, I figured it out right as I was getting ready to watch your video on a bigger screen! Huhh, interesting. So setting the P&C mesh size to the project frame size is how you "turn OFF" Vegas's lame answer to Premiere's "scale to frame size"!

Yes, I know it's easier to do in PiP when you don't care about the measurements as much, and I may still do that from time to time.

And then I watched your video on a bigger screen and confirmed what I figured, and then you posted this. WOW, why did Sony and Magix make that process so DAMN convoluted when it could've been so SIMPLE?

And then why did your video post get deleted?
 

 

john_dennis wrote on 10/5/2023, 12:54 PM

@VideoVibrance said: "And then why did your video post get deleted?"

Because I sometimes make a mistake and I don't want to spend the rest of the week 'splaning to everyone who sees it.

I have a special folder for just those eventualities, but sometimes one slips through.

Former user wrote on 10/5/2023, 1:10 PM

@VideoVibrance  No there may not be one button but with two clicks i set the media to the correct size,

  1. Right click in P/C 'Match Output Aspect' (check Lock Aspect Ratio is ticked)
  2. Type in the project width in the box

PS, I've used Adobe & it's not more intuitive, (PP - right click - search the columns - 'Scale to frame size'), a few yrs ago it took me a while & a bit of video watching to find that, I now know where that is but it wasn't intuitive. you just have to learn something new with Vegas that's all.

Robert Johnston wrote on 10/5/2023, 1:40 PM

Vegasaur has nice one-click command: "Original Size." You can select multiple events and the command will take care of them all.

Seems like it would be easy enough to write a standalone script for that. Then assign a keyboard shortcut to the script. Who wants to volunteer?

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VideoVibrance wrote on 10/5/2023, 1:55 PM

Vegasaur has nice one-click command: "Original Size." You can select multiple events and the command will take care of them all.

Seems like it would be easy enough to write a standalone script for that. Then assign a keyboard shortcut to the script. Who wants to volunteer?

How do you get to it then?

Dexcon wrote on 10/5/2023, 2:12 PM

Vegasaur is a 3rd party script-based app specially designed for Vegas Pro: https://vegasaur.com/Vegasaur

It's not free though.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

mark-y wrote on 10/5/2023, 3:52 PM

There are two traditional methods of doing this in Vegas that work in all versions.

These two examples use a Project Size of 1920x1080, and a Media Size of 648x648.

  • The simplest method uses Event Pan/Crop
  • If you have multiple events, you can use Track Motion
  • Either method yields the same result and resolution.

(Endnote: "Disable Resample" forces "Drop-or-Dupe" treatment of media for which you have changed the native frame rate, as opposed to blending or optical flow interpolation. It doesn't affect scaling.)

@VideoVibrance

mark-y wrote on 10/5/2023, 7:59 PM

@VideoVibrance said: "And then why did your video post get deleted?"

Because I sometimes make a mistake and I don't want to spend the rest of the week 'splaning to everyone who sees it.

I have a special folder for just those eventualities, but sometimes one slips through.

Integrity.

john_dennis wrote on 10/5/2023, 11:07 PM

@VideoVibrance

There are many ways to skin this cat In Vegas Pro. Here is a method that uses nesting to ensure that the 500x500 pixel media occupies 500x500 pixels in the FHD Vegas project. This method:

  • Requires no math.
  • Requires no external photo editor to prepare the media over and above the preparation that one already has done.
  • Is more than "one click".
  • Is 100% repeatable.
  • Nested projects can be copied and reused if necessary.

No Adobe apps were harmed in the making of this project, but I used Photoshop to prove that the media was scaled properly to 500 x 500 pixels.

Though many people avoid nesting like the plague, I've used it for just this purpose long before Vegas had a button to "Create Nested Timeline".

mark-y wrote on 10/5/2023, 11:10 PM

Nesting is good, too.

FayFen wrote on 10/6/2023, 7:02 AM

The freeware Kdenlive has this in the transform FX.

VideoStudio has these options on right click

VP should have the same here.

john_dennis wrote on 10/6/2023, 11:32 AM

@VideoVibrance

In a moment of clarity, just before my last brain cell turns to stone, I realized that only two aspects of Pan/Crop are required to have media scale precisely:

  • Lock Aspect Ratio must be unchecked.
  • One and only one dimension (Width or Height, but not both) must be set to the corresponding dimension in Project Properties.

Howie Duit

"Prove It!" said the crusty old professor.

@Robert Johnston said: "Seems like it would be easy enough to write a standalone script for that."

@wwaag @jetdv might know some budding script writers that would reduce those two keystrokes to one click.

jetdv wrote on 10/6/2023, 3:57 PM

@john_dennis, something like this?

Former user wrote on 10/6/2023, 4:08 PM

@jetdv Thankyou, that works well 👍

The Height & Width in Pan/Crop don't change until I click off the Vegas screen, in this clip I click on my other monitor after i zoom out on the Pan/Crop window, then the numbers change, is this expected?

john_dennis wrote on 10/6/2023, 5:42 PM

@VideoVibrance

Here is your one-click solution thanks to @jetdv. I created a colored logo to accompany the script.

Download from here

Extract and place in C:\Users\yourusername\Documents\Vegas Script Menu

You can execute from the Vegas Pro\Tools\Scripting menu...

... and/or you can add it to the Vegas Toolbar as I did. I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

Welcome to the forum.