How to render 50p 1080p for PS3 to avoid stutter?

MattAdamson wrote on 4/7/2013, 10:24 AM

Hi

As most new camcorders now render using either 50 / 60p at full hd 1920 * 1080 resolution can anyone get this format to playback on a PS3 without stutter?

From a Panasonic HDC-SDT750 or Sony 3d Full HD TD10 in 50P 2D mode it produces M2TS files. When these files are played either streamed over a 500Mbit/s power link / USB direct connection or even the internal hard drive on the PS3 it stutters playback e.g. you might see a few seconds smooth then a slight break, then more playback and so on. I can't seem to find a way to play them back on the PS3 at all other than rendering through a blu ray disc or choosing a 50i format.

I've copied the format from Media Info below that the Sony TD10 uses in 2D mode

General
ID : 1
Complete name : M:\videos\hd\unedited\30th March 2011 Easter School Play\00045.MTS
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 81.6 MiB
Duration : 27s 777ms
Overall bit rate : 24.6 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 28.0 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=24
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 27s 780ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 23.3 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 26.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 50.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.224
Stream size : 77.0 MiB (94%)

Audio

If anyone has success rendering please can you share the exact settings you use.

Many thanks

Matt

Comments

set wrote on 4/7/2013, 11:57 AM

50p/60p is not distribution-standard video frame rates. (and you won't notice any mp4 rendering option has 50p/60p frame-rate standard).
So, yes, the best option to watch is to convert them to 50i.

One of positive thing for having 50p recording mode, you can make a slow motion sequence of an action

MattAdamson wrote on 4/7/2013, 12:51 PM

Thanks however surely this can't be true as the PC can play the videos which appear much smoother than 50i. You can also use the MP4 options in a custom template to use a progressive 50 frames format which renders correctly it's just it appears choppy when played back.

Note I also have a Go Pro 3 Black Edition which has a 60 P mode in 1080 which suffers the same problem

musicvid10 wrote on 4/7/2013, 2:06 PM

AVCHD from the camera is not a suitable delivery format.
I don't know how well PS3 handles 50p in general, but Handbrake is your friend here.

john_dennis wrote on 4/7/2013, 2:27 PM

"...or even the internal hard drive on the PS3 it stutters playback..."

If the video won't play from the local hard drive, you're probably wasting your effort trying to get the video to play on the PS/3 over the network.

If you want to keep the 50/60p frame rate, you could try rendering to 1280x720-60p @ 15 mbps. At this moment, I'm streaming 720-60p from Windows Media Player over the network to my Blu-ray player. No stutter and it looks as good as it ever did.

I've never used a PS/3, but a current Blu-ray player may be a better option for playback. A little experimentation may be in order.

MattAdamson wrote on 4/7/2013, 2:46 PM

thanks so can anyone play the 50p files on any device at all at their captured resolution? i.e. any blu ray player? I thought the PS3 was generally more powerful than most blu ray players anyway so if it can't play correctly I'm not sure what will.

musicvid, thanks however how would you use handbrake here? Its as video transcoder so would I use the 50p rendered output from Vegas e.g. the MP4 file and then perform another render with handbrake? If so what format / settings would I use and what would this do in its conversion that Vegas couldn't with all it's options?

john_dennis wrote on 4/7/2013, 2:52 PM

Upload a minute of your raw video and I'll try to play it on my Blu-ray player locally and over the network.

pilsburypie wrote on 4/8/2013, 4:40 AM

Ok - I have a Panasonic Sd900, record, edit, render and play 1080 50p via PS3 beautifully - no stutter. Here is what I do:

Obviously set up the appropriate Vegas file properties, then render as a Sony AVC/MVC custom template, change the format to mp4 on the system tab and this should change the video format to AVC on the video tab. Change frames to 50 (double Pal) or 60 if you are in USA, set field order to none/progressive and the bit rate as high as you can(On 11 pro it is 25,999,360) Set audio as you would like - I select 5.1 surround. Render out.

This file I can either stream using a hard wired connection or just copy to PS3 to play....... Now for the trick that a wise man told me (Ron Windeyer). While playing the video through the PS3, pull the onscreen menu up (triangle). Navigate to AV Settings (5th from the right, top row). You get Frame Noise Reduction, Block Noise Reduction and Mosquito Noise Reduction. These need to be turned off. Also ensure your other PS3 settings are appropriate for where you live/what you rendered as e.g if you did render as 50p make sure you have the 50Hz activated in the settings menu.....

This was they key for me getting silky smooth 1080 50p goodness on the PS3 from my mp4 files. I still hold true to a statement I made a while back - with my tiny little camera, good framing, good stability, good light, edited and rendered well the PQ is better than the blockbuster blurays.

Hope this helps.

MattAdamson wrote on 4/20/2013, 12:20 PM

Thanks Pilsburypie

I really appreciate the comprehensive reply. Actually I also found this tip about the AV settings and initially thought it was the answer however even after 30 seconds through it starts to stutter again.

I also uploaded a shorter portion of the clip i.e. just over a minute to this location. I'd really appreciate if / john_dennis could test out sometime to see if it stutters for you too.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=45c8f396c6b26c3a&page=self&resid=45C8F396C6B26C3A%21394&parid=45C8F396C6B26C3A%21384&authkey=%21&Bpub=SDX.SkyDrive&Bsrc=Share

john_dennis wrote on 4/20/2013, 6:35 PM

The link asks for me to sign on and I don't have an account on this site. Is there a way to put the file in a "public" folder?

Dropbox works for me.

Ron Windeyer wrote on 4/21/2013, 1:28 AM

Hi Matt

As Pilsburypie said, I have found that mp4 files work beautifully on the PS3.

It seems that you are generating mts files. I found that problematic with Vegas - there is a solution though. It seems that if you can manipulate one of the templates to produce 50 fps mts files (and you can) Vegas does not seem to include a "flag" in the file, telling the playing hardware that the frame rate is actually 50. (or 60...) The result is that pretty soon the audio and video get very badly out of sync, there is a lot of stuttering, and the result is generally awful.

Two possible solutions. One, concentrate on producing mp4 files. They work.
Two: download tsMuxeR - a free tiny utility. Look here - http://www.videohelp.com/tools/tsMuxeR You just have to run the file through tsMuxeR (very fast process), the 50fps flag is added, and the mts file runs smoothly.

Good luck!

MattAdamson wrote on 4/21/2013, 4:50 AM

Thanks Ron,

Well I'm very pleased to say after using tsMuxer all playback issues were resolved. I simply added the file as an input file, set "Change fps" to 50 and selected "M2TS muxing" as the output and pressed "Start muxing".

It's not a big issue to run this application post processing however doesn't it indicate a bug in Vegas? Shouldn't Vegas be able to set this FPS indicator in the file when you render given you specify 50 fps in the render template settings? If so I can raise a bug report so we might see in a new version

pilsburypie wrote on 4/23/2013, 4:06 AM

Really glad you have sorted it. The 1080 50p is not easy to get full benefit from as it is not blu ray standard, but with the PS3 and our 50p cameras it seems a shame to miss out on the goodness!

It took me an age and a million questions to work out how to watch it in its full glory and I'm chuffed to bits with it. Realistically speaking with our little Panny cameras and PS3s we are getting great bang for the buck in resolution and frame rate.

pauli-hietala wrote on 10/9/2014, 2:34 PM

"download tsMuxeR - a free tiny utility. Look here - http://www.videohelp.com/tools/tsMuxeR You just have to run the file through tsMuxeR (very fast process), the 50fps flag is added, and the mts file runs smoothly."

Yes, it WORKS fine :-)