How to render with the same quality & format as input file(s)

gary-o wrote on 6/14/2023, 4:19 AM

I'm going round in circles trying to figure how to perform a "smart render". (Is that the right term, even?)

I have some footage that I am just topping and tailing and/or cutting out certain clips. Everything is the same. The format happens to be MP4 (for screen captures) or MTS (Canon video footage) and I'd like the output to be exactly the same format and quality.

How do I achieve that?

I've tried to match up the size, frame rate, etc. but the rendered file is either lower quality (yet the same file size) or the same quality but many times bigger in size.

Comments

Former user wrote on 6/14/2023, 4:33 AM

@gary-o Hi, someone better than me can explain better the rendering out part but an MP4 is just a container, it's like a folder that contains lots of bits of info, to understand this better there's an App called MediaInfo, download it, it's free & a fast download with no added adverts or any of that rubbish. https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

After downloading, right click on the media file in your Windows folder, open MediaInfo, choose Text from the options at the top, that is what is inside the MP4 container, you can Copy & paste the information in a new comment on here 👍

gary-o wrote on 6/14/2023, 5:36 AM

Thanks, Gid. This is what I have for one of my files (a Zoom recording). I want to be able to top and tail and cut out the irrelevant bits and then save it back in the same format as the original. I modified the template to be roughly similar to the settings of the original, but the quality wasn't the same. I'm hoping that Vegas can just take the file and "copy" the relevant sections of the file rather than re-render it. Or at least be able to copy the file settings (create a template that's identical with the source file?) and render accordinly.

Is there a way to do that?

 

General
Complete name                            : E:\Video Capture\Zoom\Rapid Read Thai Webinar Jun 2023\video1416855292.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 635 MiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 39 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 557 kb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2023-06-14 05:48:17 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-06-14 05:48:17 UTC

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5
Format settings                          : CABAC / 11 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 11 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 h 39 min
Bit rate                                 : 429 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.008
Stream size                              : 489 MiB (77%)
Title                                    : H.264/AVC video
Encoded date                             : 2023-06-14 05:48:17 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-06-14 05:48:17 UTC
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 2 h 39 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 126 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 166 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel layout                           : M
Sampling rate                            : 32.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 144 MiB (23%)
Title                                    : AAC audio
Encoded date                             : 2023-06-14 05:48:17 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-06-14 05:48:17 UTC

RogerS wrote on 6/14/2023, 6:00 AM

I don't think this is possible with the settings we have in VEGAS. The Zoom original is heavily compressed. The best you can do in VEGAS is same quality at a larger file size.

ShutterEncoder has options to cut and extract without conversion.
Or do it in the platform where you'll share it (YouTube?)

Former user wrote on 6/14/2023, 7:02 AM

@RogerS Hi, just been reading about compression, I'm not a lot wiser 😂🤦‍♂️ How can you tell that file is heavily compressed, is it just file size vs duration? 557 kb/s seems low?

RogerS wrote on 6/14/2023, 7:15 AM

Looking at Mediainfo for my own zoom files, # of bframes, GOP length etc. yields bitrates and file sizes that are just tiny and I don't see a way to replicate that in VEGAS with the settings we have.

Dexcon wrote on 6/14/2023, 7:21 AM

How can you tell that file is heavily compressed, is it just file size vs duration? 557 kb/s seems low?

@Former user  ... MediaInfo shows that the video is HD in size (1920x1080). If doing an HD Bluray, the bit rate would usually be between 20 to late 30's mbps. DVD bit rate would be around 11 mbps. The OP's video bit rate is miniscule 429 kbps, a rate not much more than SVCD (video on CD discs) from the 1990s.

I think that RogerS' suggestions are the best solutions.

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relaxvideo wrote on 6/14/2023, 7:44 AM

Check this: https://vegasaur.com/smart-trim

Vegas by default support only mpeg-2 program stream smart recompress (=no re-encoding if you don't apply fx at all, only cuts)

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john_dennis wrote on 6/14/2023, 8:27 AM

@gary-o

VideoReDo will allow you to trim and make internal cuts to many file types while only encoding a few frames at the cut point instead of re-encoding the whole file. There is a trial.

Learn more here: https://www.videoredo.com/en/index.htm

3POINT wrote on 6/14/2023, 8:35 AM

For quickly video editing (just cuts/trims /transitions etc without FX, color correction and grading) I use my other Editor (Powerdirector) which is able to smart render almost every video format (except HEVC).

gary-o wrote on 6/14/2023, 8:42 AM

@gary-o

VideoReDo will allow you to trim and make internal cuts to many file types while only encoding a few frames at the cut point instead of re-encoding the whole file. There is a trial.

OMG, the developer died last September. The software is no longer for sale. Maybe his family will continue to run the company and make it available again in the future... :o

DMT3 wrote on 6/14/2023, 8:46 AM

https://www.videoredo.com/en/Purchase.htm

john_dennis wrote on 6/14/2023, 8:50 AM

Try the free trial if the registration server still works. It may get you over this hump. i own four licenses for different versions and I've activated version 5 and 6 in the last month.

mark-y wrote on 6/14/2023, 11:41 AM

Personally, I would go ahead and re-encode you edited file to MP4 at a higher bitrate and shorter GOPs, knowing that the resulting file will be larger, but retain more quality. I would add a light Unsharp Mask to clean up the image.

john_dennis wrote on 6/14/2023, 12:59 PM

Even Shutter Encoder has a trim function that will cut on I-frames (which might be few and far between with Zoom video).

relaxvideo wrote on 6/14/2023, 11:06 PM

Any of these 3rd party apps support mp4 with qt lpcm audio (which my zv e10 cam produce)?
All what i tried until now claim about the audio format :(

 

Last changed by relaxvideo on 6/14/2023, 11:06 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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RogerS wrote on 6/14/2023, 11:30 PM

I don't have one, I just have the similar a6600 with PCM audio which works with ShutterEncoder. If you want someone to test footage, please make it available.

relaxvideo wrote on 6/15/2023, 9:28 AM

Cool, will try shutterencoder, thanks.

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relaxvideo wrote on 6/15/2023, 10:28 AM

RogerS:

unfortunately ShutterEncoder also cannot produce mp4 with lpcm audio. How is by you?

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john_dennis wrote on 6/15/2023, 10:35 AM

My Sony RX10IV has an app that will trim media on the nearest I-frame. I've used it to trim clips with really long leads or tails. Look on the Sony site to see if your camera has a version.

relaxvideo wrote on 6/15/2023, 10:41 AM

I think i stay on the free avidemux, only the audio need to re-encode which is lightning fast. 15x realtime on my old i7-2600 with 10% cpu usage :) :)

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