Thanks for the comment - yes this would work if I were prepared to change the DVD design concept to match the limited capabilities of DVDA. However it is a very basic requirement for a video on being stopped to return to its relevant submenu. Many remote controllers and software players have the physical buttons to do this but as far as I can see DVDA does not create the correct actions for these buttons. The poor ability to create flexible menu links beteen menus and between video and menus seems to be a very weak point of DVDA compared to all other (3) authoring packages I have experience of. Regards JohnI

What? Am I reading this right... a click of a remote on you DVD player does not take you back to the sub menu of orgin and instead takes you back to the main menu?

Somebody PLEASE tell me SoFo couldn't be that reckless.

Have I justed wasted hours making DVD projects that are broken?

The remote built-in to the application DOES work properly returning to the sub menu.

Geez... can someone confirm it is broken when actually played off a set top DVD player?

I just made a test video with 6 sub menus all linked to each other, All videos return to their proper sub menus. All sub menus are linked together and I can go back an forth between them. However, if you use the scene selection menu to automatically create links to chapter points the video will play to the end of the video from the chapter point selected and return to the main menu. However, you can modify the Scene Selection to return to the scene selection menu by double clicking on the scene button in edit mode and editing the length of the scene so that it dosen't go to the end of the video. You can also modify the scene button to reflect the video image of the new starting point by clicking the "set menu item thumbnail" button. If you wanted you could have a button on the main menu or any sub menu that would play the whole video and a scene selection menu that would only play small sections of the video and return to the scene selection menu.

Creating linked sub menus is easy but not obvious. Select insert sub menu. Place desired graphics in sub menu button. Double click on button to get to edit window for that sub menu. Add links to video or to additional sub menus. I don't know how many sub menus you can chain, but I am sure it is many more than you will ever need. I hope this helps. Wobbly Boy

Wobblyboy said:

"if you use the scene selection menu to automatically create links to chapter points the video will play to the end of the video from the chapter point selected and return to the main menu. However, you can modify the Scene Selection to return to the scene selection menu by double clicking on the scene button in edit mode and editing the length of the scene so that it dosen't go to the end of the video..."

Thanks for that test, but you didn't say HOW to edit the end point. If I read what little info SoFo put in the "manual" it indicates if you set start and end points that's what gets burned to the DVD and the rest is scrapped. Not what I want obviously.

So If I have a submenu that plays from lets say starting at 10.00 minuutes how do I get it to stop a second or two before the end so it goes back to the sub menu like it is suppose to? Are you saying just cut off a second from the ending time below the timeline at the far right?

Boy, is that a GIANT mistake.

For just one DVD where I spend a good deal of time setting up sub menus, about fifty, I now have to go back and fiddle with each and every one as a kludge to fix a programming blunder?

How did DVDA get through beta testing? I've been a beta tester for years for companies like Adobe, Microsoft and IBM and would have found such a glaring blunder in ten seconds! This is REALLY stupid. Come on SoFo fix this NOW! This is a horrible mistake. Geez... the ten year old kid down the block would have found something this obviously wrong.

Guys I appreciate your comments but I'm not sure we are all talking about the same thing....

Most remote controls have a Title (Main) Menu and a Root (Chapter) Menu button. In my case I have these on my set-top box player(s) and on my software (Power DVD) player. One should return you to the main menu and the other to the chapter menu you started from. If a chapter is selected and while the video is playing either of the Menu buttons are used (for example to chose an alternative chapter), they both take me back to the main menu not the chapter menu. I have checked out commercial and home made DVDs and they all allow you to return to the chapter menu from which you came, using the Root Menu button. DVDA seems to create DVDs that cannot do this and always go back to the Title Menu.

Try it and tell me if your results are different!

By the way the "Preview" function in DVDA has "Back" and "Menu" buttons. Back takes you back to the Chapter and Menu to the Main title screen. So if Back is the same as Root then DVDA works correctly in Preview but not on finished DVDs.

If the video is allowed to run to the end it goes back to the Chapter Menu correctly.

Any more ideas??? John I

I have yet to burn one and see for myself.

What's got my shorts in a bunch is I've been wrongly lead down the garden path thinking DVDA works as it should since the remote test feature build into the application for TESTING DOES return to the sub menu as it should.

For a 'professional' grade application, this a really a boneheaded amaturish mistake that should have never survived beta testing. I am pissed. I just wasted a lot of my time, and now need to waste more doing some silly kludge to fix this.

Grrrr....

Create your 'back to scene' menu button, drag/copy the chapter menu button from the other menu to the new button. It is now linked to a 'back to' button on the screen. If you want to return to a submenu prior the end of a video who's main screen was accessed via a 'root' menu, I don't know how to help you there.

Thanks for the comment and ideas. But isn't this rather basic? If you choose and start playing a chapter and get the wrong one or don't like it, you want to go back to the chapter menu to choose another one. That's why we have two menu buttons on all remote controls that I have used - both software and hardware types. Also other authoring packages and commercial DVDs automatically offer this. I think this yet is another DVDA bug which is not corrected in the update that I've been testing......Regards John I

>>>
By the way the "Preview" function in DVDA has "Back" and "Menu" buttons. Back takes you back to the Chapter and Menu to the Main title screen. So if Back is the same as Root then DVDA works correctly in Preview but not on finished DVDs.
<<<

Thats exactly the same I am getting here.
I already posted this last week here in this forum but I did not get an answer.

Regards
Johannes

I just went in and checked it out. I placed a link on my main menu to play a clip with three chapter points. I then placed a link on my main menu to a scene selection menu for the same clip. I then went into the scene selection menu and edited the scene for each scene selection button by moving the start and end locaters.

I then pressed f9 to preview. I clicked the button on the main menu for the clip, it played the entire clip to the end and returned to the main menu. I then clicked on the button link for the scene menu. I played each of the scenes that I had edited. Each one played from the beginning point to the end point that I had set for that scene and then returned to the scene selection menu. If I do not edit the length of the scenes and had just leave them as Chapter points, the selection of a link on the scene selection menu will play to the end of the entire clip and return to the main menu. I can either set up the scene selection menu to be a pointer to chapter points and play to the end of the clip, or define indivdual portions of the clip that that I want to play from each scene selection link.

I then went in and selected a sub menu and placed a link for the original clip on the sub menu. I doubled clicked on the button for the clip on the sub menu and edited that clip by setting new start and end points. I pressed control f9 to preview entire project. I selected a link to the clip on the main menu it played the entire clip and returned to the main menu. I then selected the button for the link to the scenes menu and played each of the scenes and it returned to the scenes menu each time. I then went back to the main menu and selected the link to the sub menu and clicked the button for my edited (shortened) version of the same clip. It played and returned to my sub menu.

The only thing that it seems one can't do is create a direct link from one video clip to another. I imagine So Fo will fix that in a furture version. I hope this is helpful. Wobbly Boy

First of all thank you for this in depth testing and this description!

Your description here covers the situation what happens when a clip comes to the end and to what menu it returns. But within this thread we were mainly discussing the situation what happens when you DONT let the clip play to its end, instead pressing a key on the remote control and to what menu it returns.

Mainly we were speaking about a key which is labeled "Root" on most remote controls. It is labeled "Back" on the simulated remote control within the DVDA Preview window. From your description I could not see if your tests were done within DVDA Preview or with a real DVD on a Desktop-DVD-Player. That does in fact make a difference because we have seen that under certain circumstances pressing the "Back" key within DVDA Preview returns the preview to the scene selection menu but on a real DVD-Player pressing the "Root" button returns to the main menu.

It would be nice if you can give some words of your findings with this situation.

Regards
Johannes

In DVD-A, the menu button(s) always take you to the top menu on the DVD. DVD-A does not provide functionality for changing this behaviour.

When your project references a video multiple times (e.g. each link in a scene selection menu is a reference), it as added to the disc as one title...except if the in and out points are different, then it is added to a separate title. (Each title still references the same video source so, the data isn't on the disc twice but will show up as separate titles on your set top player.)

Each title can only specify one place to return to. DVD-A determines automatically where it will return (i.e. you cannot set this). It returns to the top most menu that contains all references to the title. By changing, the in and out points you are making it a separate title with a different return point.

Is the title/chapter reporting bug fixed in the update? Will the title chapters display correctly on set top players now?

Thanks,
Bob.

Yes. That is addressed by the update.

First of all I must say the pro-active involvement of the SF support staff is great, "refreshing" compared to other companies.

Now after the praise here cames the punch: Jahannes H put it much better than my original post: "But within this thread we were mainly discussing the situation that happens when you DONT let the clip play to its end, instead pressing a key on the remote control and to what menu it returns."

Most if not all remotes have two Menu Buttons - they are there for a reason. One returns you to the main menu - the other returns you to the menu you just came from. I'm sorry SF is not powerful enough to change the definition of these buttons - there are too many DVDs, too many players and too many DVD authoring packages that don't agree with the DVDA implementation!!!

A single long video split in to chapters with menu buttons requires that the Root Menu takes you back to the chapter menu in case the wrong chapter was selected or you just want to select a different one. Going through the Title Menu is just not reasonable. The inconsistancy is added to by the DVDA Preview facility operating as expected with the "Back" key but the burnt DVDs doing something different.

Now I'm a reasonable chap. If you explain how we can work around it or even accept it as a bug fix item, I will wait (but not too long). Otherwise it's back to DVD Workshop because my clients won't understand why their remotes don't work as expected.

Thanks JohnI

>>>
It returns to the top most menu that contains all references to the title.
<<<

SoniSDB,

thank you for the explanation but in fact it does not work this way.
To be exact: it does work this way within DVDA-Preview when pressing the "Back" button. But it does not on the finished DVD.

I did a very simple test:
Main Menu without any video, only a button with a link to a submenu. On this submenu only one video - nothing else. When this video runs the following happens.

1. DVDA Preview: Press "Back", video stops, submenu is displayed ==>> OK.

2. Finished DVD: Press "Root-Menu", video stops, main menu is displayed ==>> NOT OK.

Didi you ever try this simple thing, it shows that something goes wrong? The submenu is the top most menu which references the video because it is the only menu within the whole project that references it - but return is to main menu.
That is seen not only with my ELTA Player, it is exactly the same problem on the PC with WinDVD and with Matrox Cineplayer.

Any comments?
Thank you
Johannes

Pan up to Wobblyboy's quick fix. I used it and it worked fine. Good enough till the next version if you can live with chopping off a second from each of your videos and don't get lockjaw mashing your teeth needing to go to every thumbnail, then the timeline, the adjust. <wink>

Just so we're talking the same language. This will restort the proper return to sub menu, not a return to top menu when using a remote on most DVD players.

Maybe I did not understand this "quick fix" correctly but as I understand it and tested it, it did not help.
In my last post I described the really simple test project with only one video reference on a submenu. But with this after pressing "Root-Menu" button it always returns to the main menu - regardless if I change in- and out-points or not???

Johannes

All I did was change the value in the next to the last box on the right below the timeline making it one second shorter. Because all the vids I had faded to black, I could see a visual change. I then just clicked on the up arrow at top to return to menu. I tired it on sub menu pages varying from three thumbnails to nine and it worked at least on my DVD player. Your milage may vary.

Does anyone have a link to the DVD specs? I can post a link to a very detailed FAQ, but haven't looked at it in a long time and don't know if it covers that or not. Just curious what you can and can't do.

Does this fix apply when the entire DVD consists of just one video file and (for example) 8 chapter points? I have no intention of "chopping it up" as it would endanger a glich free play from start to finish. However I certainly want users to access points along the way from the menu and to return to the chapter menu while the video is playing to choose a different entry point. Thanks John I

The "menu" (i.e. root) button or "top menu" (i.e. title) button will always go to the root menu.

The menu button is not the same as the back button. The back button is labelled "return", "go up" or "go back" on some DVD remotes. Many DVD remotes do not support this button.

It doesn't 'chop it up' you just remove the last second from each access point.
In other words if your first thumbnail (chapter) starts at 5.00 it will run to the end of the movie minus one second. If the second thumbnail starts at 10.00 it will run to the end of the movie minus one second and so on.

What rattled my cage was this messes up the end of the vid if you fade to black. Yes, a very minor point, but I'm a nitpicker.

The pain in the butt part is you have to edit each chapter. So if you have 10 chapters, do it 10 times, 20 chapters, 20 times.