Oh really?? Back then the story was. Mac is up to 5 times faster than an equivalent PC. Just like today you tried to convince me mac hardware costs the same as pc.

Aaah, finally something we can agree on. It was goofy.

Now you see why we shouldn't trust anything coming from Stevie boy's mouth ( or 90% of mac users' mouths ).

Well, we don't have to trust anything from Steve's mouth. We can test and see for ourselves, or find other people we come to trust over time.

Personally, I'd love it if Apple would design an official version of OSX to run on PC hardware... I think they'd get a great many customers. Although I've been more impressed with XP over the years than I ever expected to be, I wouldn't mind trying out Final Cut Studio in addition to the CS3 products and Vegas I already use.

Amen to that.

It could happen when Apple gets bigger. Why? Because they'd have to increase their test and support resources ten-fold to deal with the myriad of hardware "manufacturers" out there.

As for Apple's laptop pricing, many PC reviewers have pointed out where the same spec PC laptop cost more that the Apple equivalent, but I can see that it is possible to find examples in both directions.

Leopard may have 300 new features, but it is unable to run Java 1.6, even though that same version is available for both Windows and Linux. This could be a big issue for all third party developers that Apple has been sweet talking.

>>>>As for Apple's laptop pricing, many PC reviewers have pointed out where the same spec PC laptop cost more that the Apple equivalent, but I can see that it is possible to find examples in both directions.<<<<

Again, that is my main point in support of windows ( even thought I don't care about Mr. Bill or Steve the satan ).

Choices.

You can find the exact same laptop for $2200, and $4000.
Sager 5791 is based on Clevo 570ru, so is some Alienware model, and so is some Voodoopc or Falcon northwest laptop. They all use Clevo for their higher end models.

The difference is that Sager will sell it for much less. Those other boutiques try harder to sell their name, fancy lid design, and fancy paint jobs, but the case itself and just about everything else inside is exactly the same. So you could call Voodoopc and similar companies, Apples of the pc world. But we have choices.

Come to think of it. Apple, garden of eden, Steve, Snake, both start with S, both offering Apples. Oh, oh. ................

1. What exactly would be the value to you and me if Apple provided Java 1.6?

2. I just recalled that Shake was written by...<drumroll>...SONY.

Sony Imageworks to be exact.

According to biblical scholars, the original word that was translated to "apple" in English should have been translated to "pomegranate", a totally different fruit.

In many languages (including English), the word for pomegranate is "grenade apple" (translated of course).

Hence the confusion, and Archangel Steve is not implicated. :O)

Taking one further step: the Biblical fruit in Eden was neither an apple nor a pomegranate.

It was "the fruit of knowledge" which separated man and woman (which are also symbolic) from the angels by giving them "physical" bodies to schlepp around.

(The proper term for "physical" is "gross" as opposed to "subtle". They are both physical of course, as in "measurable".)

"Fruit" here of course means "the consequence of," and there was no judgment that this was good or bad per se.

The negative consequence was that they were not "as close to" God as before, the positive was that (with effort) they would be able to evolve to a higher level than before.

Why is it always so that threads / comments which are most off-topic and/or provocative generate most of the traffic.

This started as a troll where someone said that he is retiring Vegas because it does not run on Vista and insteadf going to run another NLE, which does not seem to support Vista either (or why he put it on XP machine?).

Now we are fighting another never ending war: Apple vs. MS/Windows. What does it matter which platform (or NLE) one uses to create the video? Who is really interested what brand of brushes Da Vinci used to create Mona Lisa? Who really cares what car I use to move my equipment from A to B to get some video shot? Car is a platform, it does not contribute to the end result. Same thing with Apple vs. Windows or Vegas vs. something-other.

Just my 0.02€

mre, you can see you never spent time in preschool seeing who could pee higher on the wall ;-P

it's the simple minded that argue the merits of nle's - as if the nle instigated, researched, scripted, shot and finally edited the project. it's a bloody tool - and whether it's broadcast or a wedding, the only thing that really matters is wetware....

getting soggier by the minute

leslie

>>>>According to biblical scholars, the original word that was translated to "apple" in English should have been translated to "pomegranate", a totally different fruit.<<<

Since these scolars used Macs, it's all wrong. Steve set it up so it would skew any conclusions about the whole garden of eden thing and cover his true identity.

"What exactly would be the value to you and me if Apple provided Java 1.6?" I don't know for you, but generating or recompiling java apps is something that happens ever so often, mostly fixing someone else's code on the fly. But java is everywhere in communication apps and advance BD generation. Sony Imageworks is a high-end studio graphics house, merging their programming staff with SMS would create a very competitive design and programming team, a Fusion type app might be possible in a reasonable amount of time if the talent could work together(big if).
.

I agree with you that there are users who would help the world by staying away from computers...

don't get me started on xp & dos. With every ounce of my being... I. Hate. XP. Seriously, you know how some people have every single issue no matter what? That's me. :D

I've never used Unix, but I used Irix on SGI's (that was nice) & Linux. But still.... i want command line, no GUI. I don't like GUI's. I still do many things in command line because I hate GUI's. The only thing an OS GUI has really improved my life on is FTP. Less commands to type in, but in every other thing drives me completly up the wall. IMHO, mice are over-rated. Back when I used DOS & had a mouse, if the program needed the mouse it said so, if it didn't mouse wasn't supported. Know how many mouse issues I had then? None. :D How many "not enough memory" issues? None (sure, you may think "hey, 640k was a lot back then, why would you?" but every single program was loaded up in to the 640, mouse drivers, hi-mem drivers, etc. it filled up fast but I still never had an issue with memory as I would just bake different autoexec's for different purposes. Rebooting didn't matter because it was only ~15 seconds to re-start the PC & OS!)

I've never used Unix, but I used Irix on SGI's (that was nice) & Linux. But still.... i want command line, no GUI.

In OS X, you just start the Terminal program to get a Unix command line prompt. If you used Irix before, you'll feel right at home, as Irix is also Unix-based.

In fact, you should be able to touch type just about anything and have it work right away. You are not alone in seeing that command line entry is many times a vastly faster way to work...

Linux? One guy recently showed how he could install Ubuntu Linux on a PC in less time than it took to boot up Vista... :O)

For those who poopoo the discussion about OS choices: we often discuss the merits of Vista vs. XP in ths forum. Of course the end result won't look any different beacuse of choosing say Vista, but as editors we have to be also concerned about practical hassle factors that unnecessarily take up our time. Hence the discussions about "best computers," "how to make Vista bearable," etc.

An amazing number of people in this forum also own and use multiple NLEs from different manufacturers.

I believe we all have in common that we prefer to use Vegas, but find ourselves sometimes unable to do so, because of having to work with other people, or because one of the other NLEs allows us to do some particular project in less time thanks to a specific feature that is currently not available in Vegas.

Most of the time of course, we can use Vegas, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the bother.

I don't know for you, but generating or recompiling java apps is something that happens ever so often, mostly fixing someone else's code on the fly.

Here's what Apple says:

Mac OS X is the only major consumer OS that comes complete with a fully configured and ready-to-use Java runtime and development environment.

I'm not a Java developer, but this sounds pretty good to me (and the above is just a fraction of what they offer for Java, and the developer tools are free...).

>>>Java on Mac OS X sports better performance numbers than its competitors, including Linux. Couple that with the best Java development environment, and you have a winning combination.<<<

back to year 200( fill in ) Jobs announces some new mac with IBM powerpc chip and claims: "it's up to 5 times faster than any PC" Sounded good too, but it was bullshit.

I wouldn't be surprised if they offered absolutely nothing for java developers, and still claimed they were the best and fastest platform for java development. They've been doing just that for years.

I'm not a Java developer, so I don't have any more facts than you do, other than that Java 6 will be in Leopard shortly.

Five years ago Steve Jobs said that the PowerPC CPU was five times faster than the equivalent Intel CPU of the time (early Pentium 3 or 4) in floating point performance if I remember correctly.

Intel CPUs have always had good integer performance, but float was something seen as not worthy, until recently when they were getting clobbered by AMD. So Steve was right in the narrow proclamation. Of course he didn't mind if people extrapoated that to everything else.

Not quite. Steve claimed mac was faster at everything, and up to 5 times at some things, and he was talking about real world apps.

They basically rigged 3-4 photoshop filter tests, and posted that as proof. They didn't let people extrapolate that, they said it themselves.
At mac expo they showed some 3d app, running much faster on a mac, than a pc next to it. They crippled the pc, so it was just another rigged bullshit demo, and we know this because everybody else had access to same app, and everybody else was able to run it much faster.

It just went on and on.

The real truth was that macs were much slower at almost everything than equivalently priced pcs. At different times these had either intel pentium 3s or later on amd chips as the best option.

Coonass...

Join Date: 10/26/2007 1:38:15 PM

Last Visit: 10/26/2007 3:44:45 PM


May the fomentor rest in peace. lol !

Having been curious, I found a torrent of OSX "Hackintosh" that ran on my AMD dual core and although it was nice, I wasn't that impressed with how OSX ran nor with FCP - it basically was the same app to me as Premiere Pro, albeit with having to use the Quicktime wrapper for any imported footage I had that was avi.

Needless to say, my curiosity was satiated and I was left with a feeling of overselling and under delivering by spin doctoring ad wizards. True, my casual look-see wasn't on actual mac hardware, but never the less, I got it out of my system and happily wiped that spare drive and put it back on the shelf.

Anytime I hear someone rant about how great the MAC platform is, I just think of how I felt when I tried it myself - it left me wanting. Gimme a DIY custom Windows Box with SONY's apps and all is right AFAIC.

Cliff Etzel
bluprojekt

"It could happen when Apple gets bigger. Why? Because they'd have to increase their test and support resources ten-fold to deal with the myriad of hardware "manufacturers" out there."

Apple has and continues to do everything in it's power to prevent any competition in its marketplace, they cross subsidise their hardware and software sales because that's not only how they make their money it's how they prevent their followers from looking sideways. It's not just their computer sales, iTunes and iPod, iPhone and the carrier etc. You'll not see Apple even letting 3rd parties sell computers that run their OSs anytime. Over the years several have tried and Apple have unleashed more legal dogs than even the RIAA could muster. More to the point the OSX licence specifically forbids you from doing so, well actually you can't buy an OSX licence like you can a licence from M$.

The good news is it looks like the EU might finally be calling Apple to account for the their gross anticompetitive behavior, the recently settled matter between the EU and M$ may have far wider implications for Apple than M$. The open source community has also had many goes at them over their failure to meet their open source obligations but don't have the clout or the money force them to behave.

Bob.

They basically rigged 3-4 photoshop filter tests, and posted that as proof.

If you say so.

I did't care about Macs for a long time, after giving up on them when OS 7.02 came out. It had an Internet implementation that was even more clueless than what was in Windows at the time (and this was AFTER Bill G had just discovered that the passing "Internet" fad might have some staying power after all).

At the time, Apple was mired in bureacracy, with administrator leaders from Pepsico, etc. running the company. They simply couldn't get anything done.

Today I see Microsoft being in that same situation. They have an administrator at the helm, somebody who doesn't have much of a clue what the company is doing, but thinks this doesn't matter, because he knows how to always keep a name in each box on the Organization Chart.

"Any name is fine, because all employees are the same, fully interchangable and providing the same work output as long as they are managed according to sound management principles."

Yeah right.

10 years ago, Michael Dell was asked hat he would do if he was running Apple.

"Sell the company's assets and give the money to the shareholders," was his answer.

Today (thanks to Steve Jobs, a guy who really knows and understands what the company is doing), Apple is worth twice as much as Dell.

Anytime I hear someone rant about how great the MAC platform is, I just think of how I felt when I tried it myself - it left me wanting.

Can you imagine a habitual FCP & Mac user saying, "Anytime I hear someone rant about how great Vegas and the Windows platform is, I just think of how I felt when I tried it myself for an hour without any training - it left me wanting, because nothing worked like I was used to."?

I hope so :O).

they cross subsidise their hardware and software sales

You mean they subsidize their hardware from their software sales and their software sales from their hardware sales?

You'll not see Apple even letting 3rd parties sell computers that run their OSs anytime.

They used to, but I think it ended when they were on the brink of going under.

the OSX licence specifically forbids you from doing so, well actually you can't buy an OSX licence like you can a licence from M$.

I'm not sure what you mean here? Anyone can go to the nearest computer store and buy an OS X package. Is it the license you are unhappy with?

To me, it's just capitalism doing its thing. Apple goes up thanks to high measured customer satisfaction, Dell goes down due to low measured customer satisfaction.

Still, I make multiple choices. I want my Vegas and I want my FCP, too. One is a snappy sports car, the other comes with 100 codecs, Livetype, and an advanced DVD application that blows DVDA out of the H2O.

So I have a PC and a Mac working side by side in my editing workstation.

Big deal? No. Easy-peasy.