IMO, Vegas is going to need a complete rewrite from scratch.

I would Love to see this for Stability and to create a true Suite of tools similar to Adobe.
I know... we can already do everything in Vegas

Wanting to be nice to an old friend, I figure, let's give "him" one more chance. Start DVD Architect, pop in a BR-RE (I don't want to waste a BD-R disk right?). DVDA goes - BD-WHAT? No can play with that. OK, I am a nice guy, so lets give "him" a BD-R. Author. Burn. Pop into PS3. Anybody want to guess the result? Honestly, this is getting silly.

Compared to Encore. Author. Burn to BD-RE. Play. No problem.

"I would go back in a heartbeat if I knew Vegas was stable - even at the expense of features a small minority of users clamor for."

I'm still hanging in using V9.0e.
You're right though I fear, the way some of the features in Vegas work whilst seemingly very nice make it very easy for the application to trip itself up.

Simple example. I'd turned on AutoPlay in Project Media, simpler that having to send it to Trimmer. Problem is that more than once clicking on the media to drag it to the T/L also invoked Autoplay and Vegas 9 gets itself into some fatal embrace.

Also frustrating is the lack of consistancy.
In Explorer I hit Space and a clip plays.
In Project Media I hit space and I'm renaming the clip.

Bob.

This is not the case with everyone. Been making BD for over a year in DVDA and never made a coaster. Worked first time I ever tried and that was on BD-RE and BD-R. They play fine on PS3, and 3 brands of BD players. Might want to check your workflow.

Kent

Simple question - do you make BDs with MPEG or H.264? I rendered to MXF from Vegas and had DVDA make a BD with H.264 encoding. Coaster. Didn't try with MPEG-2 (which is the default).

You seem to be making this harder than it is. Why use MXF for BD?

There are two sets of relevant templates to render to BD (via DVDA) in Vegas Pro 11.
1. MainConcept MPEG-2 (find the "=Blu-ray" templates)
2. Sony AVC/MVC (find the "=Blu-ray" templates)

I have used both of these and don't recall any problem using them in DVDA to create a BD-R or BD-RE (although it has been a while since I burned a BD-RE). I suggest that you give those simple templates a try and report back what specific problems you are having with them.

Also, your problem with the memory stick to PS3 is odd. I fear that the comparison to Encore isn't apples to apples. Were all of the parameters the same? Yes, I agree that it should be easy to render an mp4 out of Vegas. And it is. But that doesn't mean that any mp4 will be compatible wtih any given player, if the player has bit rate or other requirements. My point is that you are very quick to imply that a particular render of an mp4 from v11 has revealed a bug in v11. Having rendered numerous such files (admittedly not for a PS3), I have found no such failure for me, except when the mp4 that I rendered had a higher bit rate than the player could handle.

I'm making AVCHD Bluray with AVCHD files from the Vegas timeline. It works very well & very fast. It also plays on the ps3. Audio format could be problem for the ps3. A demux might be necessary but that is the ps3 fault not Vegas. I think Vegas 11 is Great! DVDA is not so great but I use it anyway. My 2 cents

I rendered to MXF for using other places. I had expected DVDA would be able to render to H.264 BD from anything it could read, particularly Sony formats. From earlier, the advice seemed always to be to have DVDA encode the video, if that has changed it would surprise me. Of course, Encore had no problems encoding the video (from SONY mxf).

I rendered to AVC using a standard HD template. No changes in any parameters except System - changing from m2ts to mp4. I would prefer it play on all devices, but would be happy if it played on SONY devices - you know, the device made by the company that owns Vegas.

As I said, it was no problem rendering the MP4 enveloped AVC, it was playing it back that was problematic.

What version did you have before?

And.... you downloaded the trial and bought the upgrade BEFORE putting it through a test run?

Do I understand that you are having DVDA render the video? That use to be a no-no and anytime DVDA wanted to reencode something I knew I had done it wrong in Vegas.

Kent

"From earlier, the advice seemed always to be to have DVDA encode the video, if that has changed it would surprise me. "

No, it's the other way around. You encode the MPEG and AC3 files in Vegas. If DVDA want's to re-encode it, then you selected the wrong bit rate in the Vegas encoding template.

I concur with Steve.

However . . . .

DVDA will encode any changes or setups made within DVDA: Graphics; Chapter adjusts; Animations of buttons; additional Audio tracks that haven't been sheep-dipped through the Vegas platform . . . and so on . . . well, it would, wouldn't it?

So, DVDA does do some essential DVDA-designed encoding.

G

Sheep-dip; I like the analogy.
Grazie, I am OK with letting DVDA re-encode menus and other things that don't effect the visual quality of the product.

Yes, Vegas is slipping at the mo...but I can remember a time not too long ago when Premier users were pulling hair out in tufts when attempting to edit HD. Me? I just dropped those files on the Vegas TL and noticed no difference apart from longer rendering times. Adobe to their credit took the bull by the horns and fixed it. Sony really need to take note and do the same, as anyone using Vegas to make a living can't afford to be loyal forever. I'm back on 9e and staying there until I see light at the end of the tunnel.

Re DVDA and Blu-ray; I've burnt many BD's a using a variety of file formats and never had a problem. My gripe with DVDA is it's stuck in the last century.

I would prefer it play on all devices, but would be happy if it played on SONY devices - you know, the device made by the company that owns Vegas.

Ignoring the playback requirements of your equipment will not result in success, regardless of the brand of the encoder or player. Giving the "Sony to Sony" argument is like saying that I should be able to take the engine out of my Honda Pilot SUV and use it in my Honda motorcycle. They're both made by Honda, right?

Vegas Pro gives us pro tools, assuming that pros recognize the requirements, tools, and options that fit a particular situation. I'm not a pro, but I do try to understand these as best as I can. I always try to be aware of the target playback requirements when I render and it usually goes beyond the codec (H264) to include other options, such as bit rate and even audio properties.

Could Vegas and DVDA work better together? Perhaps. But, it seems like your problem with MXF's isn't a Vegas problem (indeed, didn't you say that Encore would use the MXF from Vegas?). It seems it is a DVDA problem.

As others and I have said, there is a workflow to BD-R from Vegas to DVDA that seems to work for us and we're trying to help you find one that works, too. Have you tried these? If so and they're still failing, then I suspect there is something in your setup that isn't quite right. You haven't said what version of DVDA you're using. That might be a place to help us to further understand and offer help.

I would hardly consider that a fail. It seems to me like you just have to figure out what tweaks are needed to the template to make PS3 (or whatever) playable mp4s, and then save that to a new template.

You may get your wish. Sony bought Netblender last October (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/news/ShowRelease.asp?ReleaseID=758&CatID=0) so a major update to DVDA may be in the works.

Is Sony positioning DVDA as a mid-range replacement for their horribly expensive Blu Print product?

Here's an article about the acquisition:
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/sony-creative-software-acquisition-of-netblender-boosts-bluray-authoring

The pertinent paragraph reads: "Sony Creative Software now controls the still-active Netblender site; the transition of the website to Sony Creative Software will take place at the beginning of 2012. The re-branding of the product line however, is a few months away."

>> Ignoring the playback requirements of your equipment will not result in success

If I encode to AVCHD using a standard Sony template with a bit rate and resolution supported by my device, I would expect it to play on said device. I would definitely expect it to play on a Sony device that does support this. The PS3 supports quite a lot of formats and bit rates. I think that is not unreasonable.

What I did was chose to encode, select a template with a matching resolution and bit rate, change the container to MP4, and encode. I did this in Vegas, and it failed. I did it in Premiere and it worked. Why does it not work from Vegas? I do not know, but having to spend time to find out doesn't leave me with the impression that things are going to be anywhere near smooth with Vegas given that encoding is rather a basic thing. If SCS struggled with that, what about stuff that is actually hard to do?

My point is not that Vegas can't do this, it is that when using Vegas I feel like I am beta testing a non-finished product. That has been the case with Premiere before, but it isn't at the moment.

>> But, it seems like your problem with MXF's

I don't have a problem with MXF's. That is just the DVDA ingestion format. It doesn't (or should not) have any impact on the quality (as in correctness) of the output. If it has an impact on the correctness of the output, there are even bigger problems.

My reason for doing this test was simple. I am a big fan of the Vegas work flow. Since version 9 things have been going down hill with Vegas though, and I have run into too many problems for me to be able to work effectively with Vegas. Many of these problems are being discussed on this forum. As I said, I am still a huge fan of the work flow however, so I have kept up with the Vegas releases. I do have Vegas installed on one of my workstations, and I do work with it on occasion. I know that I can probably put together a work flow that will allow me to encode to BD. I have done it with both V9 and V10. The problem is that I don't have enough confidence in the product to actually do this for real stuff. Testing on V11 didn't increase my confidence, so I am back to working mostly in Premiere. I will probably do the same when V12 comes out, and I desperately hope that SCS has worked hard on the real problems of Vegas. I don't want to see any more features. I don't want or need 3D, and so it is for the vast majority of Vegas users. I CERTAINLY don't need 3D more than I need a rock solid piece of software. I don't need a new titler more than I need rock solid software. I do not need GPU accelerated endcoding more than I need rock solid software.

My wish is just that SCS would work on the "rock solid" part a lot more and the new features comparatively less. Vegas used to be rock solid with features nobody else had. You could put anything on the timeline and it just worked. Competitors were picky about what you could put on the time line (almost nothing at all) and they were as solid as a paper house. Today Vegas is nowhere near rock solid. In addition it doesn't have the features its competitors have. It has lost ground on both accounts. I went with Vegas mostly because it was rock solid. That is where SCS should focus now. Not 3D or 4D. Not Yet Another Titler (three are shipped with Vegas now). Stability and correctness. Then collaboration. After that, features.

>My wish is just that SCS would work on the "rock solid" part a lot more and the new features comparatively less.

Amen, except that you can get that by going back to an older version (which is what I'm currently doing). I really feel bad for people just getting into the Vegas 11 game that don't have access to older versions. I can't see how they could possibly actually use it.

Terje says, “My wish is just that SCS would work on the "rock solid" part a lot more and the new features comparatively less. Vegas used to be rock solid…” and Laurence says, “Amen…”

Well, I know you both do not want to hear it but Vegas 11 is 100% stable on my system. It is also 100% stable on the systems of many others here. And it is 100% stable on the systems that SCS has.

SO how do you expect SCS to make Vegas 11 more stable when they do not have systems like yours to make Vegas more stable on? Assuming the problem is actually Vegas! And you both do not have your system specs on here!

I guess I should not be surprised that at least two people complaining about Vegas do not have their specs listed! …sigh

Time and time again people come on here and complain about Vegas and they do not include needed information to get help! SIGH!!!

"Well, I know you both do not want to hear it but Vegas 11 is 100% stable on my system. It is also 100% stable on the systems of many others here. And it is 100% stable on the systems that SCS has."

You know this how?
Perhaps you should read this.

Bob.

>> Well, I know you both do not want to hear it but Vegas 11 is 100% stable on my system

Somehow I doubt it, but we probably have different work flows. Throw some AVCHD on the time line though, go File -> Render and select the Main Concept AVC/AAC encoder. Select any template, I just tried it with the Sony Tablet 1080p template. It rendered for two seconds then: "An error occurred while creating the media file ... The reason for the error could not be determined."

If you are curious about my AVC source, it is a Canon 7D.

>> And it is 100% stable on the systems that SCS has.

Really? You've been there and checked it? Also, given that there is quite a few reported problems, are people just really, really unlucky with their hardware? It seems to be rock solid when I use Premiere, Photoshop and Lightroom.

>> I guess I should not be surprised that at least two people complaining about Vegas do not have their specs listed

I wasn't looking for help, I was pointing out an on-going problem. If I was looking for help I would have contacted SCS.