If you use Continuum Complete, can you test DenoiseML in Vegas Pro 21?

IAM4UK wrote on 11/20/2023, 1:52 PM

I subscribe to Boris FX Continuum Complete, and they've added a "Machine Learning" Denoise module. But when I try to use it in Vegas Pro 21, Build 187, it (and VP21) crash to "Not Responding." I am interested to learn if others who may have BCC also experience this same behavior. If so, any thoughts on determining if VP or BCC is the culprit?

Comments

Reyfox wrote on 11/20/2023, 3:03 PM

Yes, I've tested it. It's a "one click" wonder! BUT, you won't be able to play it back on the timeline. Maybe 2fps.

You would do your edits first, and then that last. Also rendering. A 6 second clip (UHD4K 50P) took 5 minutes to render using AMD VCE 4K 50P.

I've used it on 1080HD clips too with great success, but again, slow rendering and forget about timeline playback.

 

Last changed by Reyfox on 11/20/2023, 3:04 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Newbie😁

Vegas Post 365 (Currently VP21)

Win 11 Pro

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 cores / 32 threads

32GB DDR4 3200

Sapphire RX6700XT 12GB Driver: 22.5.1, testing 24.6.1

Gigabyte X570 Elite Motherboard

RogerS wrote on 11/20/2023, 10:11 PM

I'd report your experience to Boris.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Dexcon wrote on 11/20/2023, 10:45 PM

I've just tried BCC+DeNoise ML on a couple of 4K events in VP21b187 - no crash. As mentioned by Reyfox, timeline playback is very sluggish.

But first impressions are that this is a very good VFX.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.5, BCC 2023.5, Mocha Pro 2023, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

monoparadox wrote on 11/21/2023, 12:11 AM

Slow as molasses. Result was very impressive. Boris knows it and recommended turning off for timeline work and suggested rendering and replacing. I think they were demonstrating in Premier..

fr0sty wrote on 11/21/2023, 12:38 AM

Any NR plugin is going to be slow by nature, especially AI powered.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Former user wrote on 11/21/2023, 3:27 AM

I've just been trying this & am quite impressed with it, the slow playback & render speed doesn't surprise me at all but no crash.

This 32sec UHD clip took approx 14mins with Magix AVC & with Voukoder.

@IAM4UK can you click your icon at the top of this page - My Profile & fill in your Signature with the full name of your CPU, GPU & amount of RAM, also inc the Windows & Vegas version, this will then show at the bottom of your comments, 👍

Reyfox wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:05 AM

Boris FX is keenly aware of the performance of DeNoise ML. That is why, for the moment, they recommend enabling it after doing all your editing. I was told that there will be performance improvements in the future. Which "future" is anyone's guess.

But I have to say, one click and WOW!!! But then, my footage isn't that noisy to begin with.

@Former user, thanks for the Task Manager screenshot. I see the same "spiking" with the GPU and lots of CPU usage. So it's not just an AMD GPU "thing".

Last changed by Reyfox on 11/21/2023, 7:05 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Newbie😁

Vegas Post 365 (Currently VP21)

Win 11 Pro

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 cores / 32 threads

32GB DDR4 3200

Sapphire RX6700XT 12GB Driver: 22.5.1, testing 24.6.1

Gigabyte X570 Elite Motherboard

bitman wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:18 AM

@IAM4UK It works, and no crash on my system. I waited for a Black Friday sale on the Boris Continuum update, unfortunately I had to pay an extra re-instatement fee as I skipped one year 😞, Also, showing prices without the tax until you have to pay is also an unwelcome non European way of luring business, forbidden in Belgium. Enough rant, I wanted to get some better noise reduction such as Neat Video (I tried the latest demo), was tempted by the recent neat Video post from @Grazie, but decided to go for an update on Boris. The new ML noise reduction from Boris is very easy to use, and gives at first glance comparable results to neat video. Also definitely improved versus Boris own standard denoise. I must say neat video; at least the demo version with reduced output size denoise treatment - (see green square - not full HD) is fast compared to Boris which is very slow.

Attached here is a Vegas timeline screenshot of a red deer 4K shot in almost darkness with Sony RX10M4 at 600 mm tele rendered before in Vegas 21 into FHD once with Neat Video demo (Left side with the green square) and rendered out once in FHD with BCC+ Denoise ML (Right side). On the Left side you can still see the original grain beyond the green square of the demo. I have added a split screen with a small shift to show the same deer in both timeline at once.

Last changed by bitman on 11/21/2023, 7:20 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

Former user wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:24 AM

I waited for a Black Friday sale on the Boris Continuum update, unfortunately I had to pay an extra re-instatement fee as I skipped one year

@bitman Hi, I was late on an upgrade expecting to have to pay full price or some kind of 'extra'. but I use the chat window on Boris's page for my purchases & asked for their best price, I was given n paid the reg update price.

Reyfox wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:28 AM

@Former user, way back when Boris units were a part of Vegas Suites, I was having a problem with one of the plugins. Emailed with Boris back and forth. And then, I received an email to get Continuum Complete, since I had a few Boris plugins. The price that they offered, I couldn't dismiss, and bought in. Now, been updating for the last few years. They seem to never stop pushing forward.

Former user wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:36 AM

@Reyfox  Yep, they seem a decent company, from my experience 'ask n you'll receive'. (within reason) 👍

I recently had a problem, they weren't helpful but the problem wasn't clear so I'm not surprised they didn't have an immediate fix, I sorted it in the end after a loooong post of many prob confusing comments, the final reply was polite & appreciative 👍 This is that post, you don't need to read it all 😏😂 https://forum.borisfx.com/t/mocha-standalone-not-loading-ui/17640/12

IAM4UK wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:38 AM

Thanks for the replies. I of course emailed BorisFX before ever asking here on the VEGAS Pro forum, but I have not received a reply from them yet. Busy time of year...
It appears my crashes are abnormal, as none of the folks on this thread have had them. That's important data for me, as I try to troubleshoot.
Do any of you fine folks also use Intel ARC graphics card? That card's drivers was giving me lockups when I updated VP21 to Build 187, and an Intel driver update stopped the hard-locking of my computer whenever I ran VP21. But maybe Intel ARC is again my issue...?

Reyfox wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:42 AM

Nope... using AMD RX 6700XT with the latest AMD drivers.

Former user wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:42 AM

@IAM4UK I asked this earlier, can you click your icon at the top of this page - My Profile & fill in your Signature with the full name of your CPU, GPU & amount of RAM, also inc the Windows & Vegas version, this will then show at the bottom of your comments, 👍

IAM4UK wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:47 AM

@IAM4UK I asked this earlier, can you click your icon at the top of this page - My Profile & fill in your Signature with the full name of your CPU, GPU & amount of RAM, also inc the Windows & Vegas version, this will then show at the bottom of your comments, 👍

Yes, I did that.

bitman wrote on 11/21/2023, 7:49 AM

Just a question as I usually try to avoid noisy footage, but if you do have to use a denoiser, is it best to add the denoiser in Vegas in the beginning of the OFX chain or as the last one in the chain, bearing in mind I usually use 4K footage to stabilize and zoom in to FHD screen format as project and output.

Or maybe even before pan&crop zoom in to FHD (and stabilize if needed).

And color correction, before or after denoiser?

Sharpening after the denoiser I suppose...

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

RogerS wrote on 11/21/2023, 8:21 AM

Interesting, so you are an Intel/Intel user (iGPU + ARC). We don't see many of those here.

I don't know if any other ARC users on this forum are using that Fx.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Reyfox wrote on 11/21/2023, 8:21 AM

@bitman, I haven't personally experimented where to place the DeNoise in the effect chain. But the clips I tested on, it was at the end. I was also using Boris Magic Sharp and Vegas Upscale. I've done no color correction yet.

 

IAM4UK wrote on 11/21/2023, 1:24 PM

Update after more troubleshooting: This appears to be another case where Intel ARC is simply not ready for VEGAS Pro power-use. I uninstalled all the Intel GPU drivers, removed the ARC from my system, installed an old AMD 5600XT, installed the Pro Edition of the AMD drivers, set VEGAS Pro File I/O to use that AMD GPU, restarted, and tried the same 10-second clip test of BCC+ DeNoise ML.
Result: It successfully ran and rendered without hiccup. It took a few minutes to do just those 10 noisy seconds of 4k video, but the image was VERY impressive, considering the poor lighting I had in the scene.

Reyfox wrote on 11/21/2023, 1:43 PM

Well, glad you at least know that DeNoise ML does work on your computer and does a great job albeit, slow rendering and zero chance of timeline playback with any respectable frame rates.

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 11/21/2023, 3:52 PM

Personally, i wont be using this new feature. Way too slow for main stream workflows.... Will be sticking with Neat Video on this one, which not only improves in it's core features with each passing update but also improves in processing speed.

Reyfox wrote on 11/21/2023, 4:12 PM

@Steve_Rhoden I fully understand anyone who is using NeatVideo, to stay with it. It is faster, much faster. My problem is, I rarely shoot anything that would require using any noise reduction plugin. If I had to, I have NeatVideo in another editor where i could do it there. But for a first try, DeNoise works with one click. Slow, yes. Slow rendering, oh yes. But when I wrote to one of the project managers in the Boris forum, they said the plugin is going to improve in performance.

So, it's included in Continuum Complete 2024, which I do have. The cost to get a copy of Neat (cross grade) for Vegas is almost the same as getting the update for Continuum.

Former user wrote on 11/21/2023, 6:08 PM

It's problem looks obvious, it's cycling between CPU and GPU, but the amount of CPU it needs is enormous. I think @Former user has 32 CPU cores and even he's getting 100% CPU spikes, so will be much slower for the rest of us. GPU use is constrained, a bit like Topaz, but Topaz seems to be able to run CPU and GPU processing at the same time, and doesn't need the same amount of CPU although I"ve heard Topaz will happily max out a 13900K