Intermediates Part I -- Seven Lossless Codecs

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 7/6/2011, 4:52 PM
Well, I find time to edit my tests, does that count . . . . ?
musicvid10 wrote on 7/6/2011, 5:44 PM
Thanks to Nick, a late arrival to the starting gate, UT has become the speed leader for lossless RGB codecs.
See changes in the top post. As with Huffy, "predict median" was used.
Another Huffy knockoff, it produces file sizes comparable to Lagarith.
I will be testing the YUV variants over the coming days. The 4:2:2 version looks interesting.
SuperG wrote on 7/6/2011, 10:26 PM
Thanks for posting that comparison, musicvid. I always appreciate when someone takes the time to do these things. They either confirm what I already know or they tell me 'what I know' may be a little, uh, 'off'...

Another reason lagarith is popular is that you can render with an alpha channel. This works like gangbusters when you do things like animated lower-thirds, where you're better off using a rendered file than using a nested project,
ushere wrote on 7/6/2011, 10:55 PM
another vote of thanks musicvid - very useful info, even if i'm happy with mxf it's good to know that if i'm ever not, where to turn....

musicvid10 wrote on 7/6/2011, 11:32 PM
Just when I thought I'd found a new favorite; alas, none of the UT codecs open in Handbrake either . . .

ffmpeg seriously needs to update their libraries.
NickHope wrote on 7/6/2011, 11:36 PM
musicvid wrote:>> If you are currently using a visually "lossless" codec in Vegas that you do not see on the list, just mention it and I will add it alongside the others. <<

Quicktime MJPEG-B please! Since that is what I render my 1080i HDV to (at 90% quality) for my Apple-based stock footage rep.

Laurence wrote:>> Also, for some reason that I don't understand, there is less video damage in MXF in the parts that are rerendered. I have no idea why but the difference is easy to see. <<

Could it be that the HDV render is using the old MainConcept codec, but the MXF render is using a newer whizbang Sony codec?

Right, I'm off to test 37 brands of coffee I have lined up in the kitchen.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/7/2011, 12:07 AM
"Quicktime MJPEG-B please!"

That was actually included in the audition round, but got cut from the top twenty list.
Not sure now just why. Maybe just long renders.
I'll run it again and include it in the next round of testing.

BTW Nick, you may have more knowledge about this than me. Belle-Nuit seems to have two ways of showing chroma subsampling errors. One is to turn the red/cyan stripes a darker neutral color, the other is to turn them to bright red and cyan bars. I can't make sense why different lossy codecs do one or the other. Any ideas?
NickHope wrote on 7/7/2011, 12:48 AM
Sounds possibly like the difference I was seeing between whether 601 or 709 coefficients are used for YUV<=>RGB conversion. I would see really big differences, especially in the overall visual brightness of the cyan and magenta bars. I guess the smallish area on the chart titled 601 and 709 is the place to judge which coefficients get used, but I'm not sure exactly how.
mekelly wrote on 7/7/2011, 10:30 AM
Can anybody offer some tips here please! I went to the Lagarith download site (http://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html) and downloaded both the installer and the manual installation files.

I am running Windows 7 Pro 64 bit with Vegas Pro 10e and ran the installer. It completed with no errors. Ran Vegas selected 'Render As' selected the .avi file type and then custom but have no choice for the Lagarith codec. Then ran the manual installation (per the instructions). Again, no errors and tried running both the 64 bit and 32 bit of Vegas per above. Still no joy, I don't see where the option for the Lagarith codec being available anywhere. The lagarith.dll file is in the \windows\syswow64 and \windows\system32 directories (must have been put there by the installation routines as I didn't move the files there).

Any tips on what I am missing or what I can try?

Thanks!!!
Former user wrote on 7/7/2011, 10:35 AM
Mekelly,

Do you see the other codecs under your custom codec options?

Dave T2
mekelly wrote on 7/7/2011, 10:46 AM
Yes, all the other choices are there.

It gets a little stranger in that when I go to 'Uninstall or change a program' in Control Panel, the Lagarith Lossless Coded shows up, indicating to me that's it's installed.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/21/2011, 2:18 PM
Correction: I removed the Avid DNxHD 10-bit codec because a second test shows it not to be truly lossless. I must have looked at the wrong render earlier. Although my methods are a bit Draconian, it does not mean there is anything wrong with the visually lossless codecs that will show up in later tests.

More to come . . .
Cliff Etzel wrote on 7/21/2011, 4:35 PM
Have you done any testing with the Matrox Codec?

Still running into performance issues with Vegas Pro 10e and it's even worse today than before. Now DNxHD 720p clips are playing back really sluggish.

I REALLY want to like Vegas Pro - REALLY REALLY bad
musicvid10 wrote on 7/21/2011, 4:51 PM
Three of the Matrox codecs were tested.
Understand that I am only checking color accuracy, relative encoding time and file sizes.
Playability or decodability can be someone else's project.
;?)