Introduction: I *want* to switch to Vegas (looking for advice)

Matthias-Claflin wrote on 10/28/2018, 12:45 PM

Introduction:

I haven’t used Vegas since Sony Vegas Platinum 9. When I moved into the realm of professional software I chose Adobe. I’ve been using the entire Creative Cloud Suite now for several years and have become accustomed to it. However a few things have prompted me to look for an alternative, so my first instinct is to go back to where I started.

 

About Me:

I currently run a video production company that caters mostly to the corporate/commercial video side. I do a few weddings every year but my bread and butter at the moment is corporate/commercial video. A majority of my videos rely heavily on; motion graphics, chroma key, multi-cam editing, and live video.

 

Why I *Want* to Switch:

A few things I hate about Adobe is the monthly model. I don’t always need the newest updates (as many of them are unrelated to work I do) and I don’t really care if I have the newest RED camera support, for instance. So I’m looking for software that I can buy once and own forever. That said, I have absolutely no problem spending $600+ on software a year, but if I can save some money by switching to something that doesn’t require that commitment, why not? Lastly, my hardware. I hate that Adobe only caters to the Intel market. I use AMD and have been for a long time. The only reason I have a Nvidia graphics card was to cater to the Adobe suite but I honestly would love to go back to AMD (since Nvidia only offers native GPU acceleration with Nvidia).

 

Why I’m Hesitant to Switch:

I have relied heavily on the integration between AE and Premiere. It genuinely saves a ton of time for me, so this is really the hardest part to give up. That said I am also hesitant to move to Vegas because that also means losing integration with other software from Adobe like Photoshop and Adobe Media Encoder (though AME hasn’t been working for me anyway.) This has been huge in saving me time when editing. This is the argument I’ve always presented on why not to switch, and I think I’m getting over it.

 

Some Questions:

So I have had some issues with my trial version of Vegas that annoyed me and I was hoping someone would have some insight on these. Keep in mind, I’ll use the phrase in Premiere a lot because that’s all I know. I’m not trying to sound like an Adobe fanboy.

  1. When importing do I really need to wait for all peak files to be generated before editing? This step seems to significantly bog down the program (though it never did in Premiere). These are files from a Canon C100.
  2. When editing, where is my timeline located? In Premiere, I can edit the name or properties of a timeline by right clicking on the timeline in my media bin. Not sure how to do this in Vegas.
  3. Is there anyway to hide the presets in the Transitions, Video FX, and Media Generators panels? I don’t really want to see the presets in action. I find this to be clunky and an unnecessary use of space.
  4. When I want histograms/vectorscopes/RGB parade is there a way to dock it into the work space instead of having a floating window?
  5. Is there a way to copy Video FX on different clips? I don’t necessarily want to have to create a preset every time I want two clips to have an identical effect applied to it.
  6. Is there a way to scrub through the footage, without hearing the audio, and without creating in/out points?
  7. What is the integration like for HitFilm Pro? I know ignite exists, but I really like the Hitfilm Pro software and working in a 3d work space. Is there any chance I don’t have to render between the two programs?

 

Conclusion:

I really do love the idea of switching to Vegas, but I’m really not all that knowledgeable of the way it operates as opposed to Premiere. I like the audio abilities far better than Premiere (which is a huge selling point for me on Vegas). I’m looking for any advice/guidance when considering this switch.

 

 

Sincerely,

Matthias Claflin

 

 

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Comments

Former user wrote on 10/28/2018, 1:01 PM

I think if you download the trial, it will probably answer many of your questions, but the basic operations of Vegas, (audio peaks, timeline, etc) have not changed much since version 9.

Matthias-Claflin wrote on 10/28/2018, 1:04 PM

I think if you download the trial, it will probably answer many of your questions, but the basic operations of Vegas, (audio peaks, timeline, etc) have not changed much since version 9.

I'm currently using the trial which is where my questions came from. Testing the trial and not understanding how to achieve what I wanted with the software the same way I have done previously in other software (namely Premiere).

Marco. wrote on 10/28/2018, 1:22 PM

1. You don't have to wait but performance may suffer until peaks are built.

2. In Vegas Pro there is just one timeline and no way to modify the timeline properties (Vegas Pro offers project nesting instead).

4. Except of the timeline you can use every Vegas Pro window either floated or docked. To dock a window mouse-drag while having "Ctrl" pressed and drop it inside the docking area.

5. Copy an Event which contains the video FX, select other Events, right-click and select either "Insert Event Attributes" or "Selective Insert Event Attributes".
Also you can use scripting to apply particular FX to selected video Events. Scripting is a powerful tool in Vegas Pro.

6. One way is to mute the master bus (and just ignore the Loop-Region build while scrubbing as it wouldn't do anything except you have loop playback enabled or selected the render option to render the loop region only).

7. You can send the media of a video Event directly to HitFilm Pro, edit in HitFilm Pro and when saving the HitFilm project, your Video Event in the Vegas Pro will be automatically updated. This works in the way Vegas Pro then uses the HitFilm project file as a new take in the timeline Event.

Tim Stannard wrote on 10/28/2018, 1:27 PM

There are many others here far more knowledgable than me, but this'll get you started:

When importing do I really need to wait for all peak files to be generated before editing? This step seems to significantly bog down the program (though it never did in Premiere). These are files from a Canon C100.

When editing, where is my timeline located? In Premiere, I can edit the name or properties of a timeline by right clicking on the timeline in my media bin. Not sure how to do this in Vegas.

If by timeline you mean the tracks that make up the current edit, then it is the project. Vegas does not have the concept of several different timelines within one project. So, one timeline = one project (= one Vegas .veg file) Before you throw your hands up in horror about the limitations one significant factor with Vegas is that you can run multiple instances of Vegas and copy assests between them (as well as nest projects).

Is there anyway to hide the presets in the Transitions, Video FX, and Media Generators panels? I don’t really want to see the presets in action. I find this to be clunky and an unnecessary use of space.

Not as fas as I'm aware, but you could resize the Transitions windows/tab so that you can't see all the presets. Personally I don't look at the transitions tab. I find it much simpler to slide one event over another, right-click on the crossover, and select Transition | Insert other (less mouse movement)

When I want histograms/vectorscopes/RGB parade is there a way to dock it into the work space instead of having a floating window?

Yes! Hold Control whilst near where yuou want to dock it and it will become a tabbed docked window (this is the reverse of what ysed to happen when it would default to docking whenever you wre near a docking area)

Is there a way to copy Video FX on different clips? I don’t necessarily want to have to create a preset every time I want two clips to have an identical effect applied to it.

Right click the "from" event and select Copy. Right click on the "to" event and either "Paste event attributes" (copies pan/crop and all FX and other stuff) or "Selectively paste event attributes" (you guessed it)

Is there a way to scrub through the footage, without hearing the audio, and without creating in/out points?

I'm unclear where you are trying to scrub - trimmer or timeline. Whichever, musing audio is only one click away.

What is the integration like for HitFilm Pro? I know ignite exists, but I really like the Hitfilm Pro software and working in a 3d work space. Is there any chance I don’t have to render between the two programs?

You can drag a HitFilm project into Vegas and right click on it to edit it in Vegas, but it will create a proxy file (so it does render, even though you're not doing it yourself) in Vegas so not as fluid as you or I might like. I'd love this to be better.

Tim Stannard wrote on 10/28/2018, 1:28 PM

Of course, while I was typing Marco beat me to it with a far more succinct version of basically the same set of answers :)

 

Former user wrote on 10/28/2018, 2:37 PM

Item 6.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-timeline-skimming--98892/    

See imaginACTIONfilms post ...

“The simplest way to move the cursor around the timeline in Vegas is to just put your pointer over the cursor ON THE TIMELINE, ie not near the playhead. Hold down the mouse and the cursor moves really fast in either direction.” No Audio.

This is what I use, it only took me about 6 months to discover it when I started!😩 I was using the playhead instead!

Also see page 20 of the manual pdf.

Matthias-Claflin wrote on 10/28/2018, 2:44 PM

Thank you both for these answers! Very much appreciate it.

@Former user doesn't that create in/out points? Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

A few new questions I have:

  1. Is there any dropped frames indicator I could toggle on so that if the preview drops frames for any reason it would let me know?
  2. Is there any bias in the development of Vegas towards any brand of hardware? For instance, Adobe is biased toward Intel and Nvidia, so much so that they don't offer any native acceleration for AMD CPU/GPU at all. Does Vegas work well with AMD components? I'd really like to go back to AMD GPUs with the price of Nvidia getting higher with every generation and my biggest bottleneck being my GPU.
Former user wrote on 10/28/2018, 2:59 PM

Dragging immediately above the ruler markings does scrub the timeline and simultaneously creates a loop region, but thats different, probably not what you want right now. To quickly remove the loop selected region press I and O. To allow playback to continuously loop within the selection press Q, this toggles looping, turns the selection to a blue colour. Handy for studying a small piece of video intensively, adjust the “rate” by either dragging or right clicking (gives 4 fixed rates) the very small white triangle, bottom left of screen. Also useful to render out a small piece of project rather than all of, to make sure it looks ok, theres a check box in the render as dialog box, its on by default.

When you move the mouse over the vertical cursor anywhere below the playhead, it changes to <—> then left click, hold and drag the cursor where you want, no audio.

Your item 1. immediately above .. the only way I know of for playback is the “Display “ item at the bottom of the preview window, it will show less than project properties frame rate if it can’t keep up.

Your item 2. immediately above .. bias is towards AMD for graphics cards. Correction .. See Nicks post below. There isn’t an in-house bias. I was going by the perceived wisdom that I have seen from previous posters here which is that AMD works better than Nvidia. But thats not what you asked, late night posting can lead to inaccuracies 🤪.

NickHope wrote on 10/28/2018, 10:19 PM
Your item 1. immediately above .. the only way I know of for playback is the “Display “ item at the bottom of the preview window, it will show less than project properties frame rate if it can’t keep up.

Illustrated:

Is there any bias in the development of Vegas towards any brand of hardware?

Ever since GPU acceleration was introduced in VP11, its OpenCL implementation has worked better with AMD GPUs than NVIDIA GPUs. For a couple of example numbers, take a look at this recent comment (2fps!!) and compare with those that follow it. I doubt that there is any intentional bias, and in fact in recent times NVIDIA NVENC rendering was introduced well ahead of AMD VCE rendering. In fact hardware-independence is so enshrined in Vegas that neither Sony nor Magix has published any system recommendation for many years, other than minimum requirements, which can be frustrating.

There's a slightly dated article on GPU acceleration here. I must update it.

BruceUSA wrote on 10/28/2018, 11:30 PM

Thank you both for these answers! Very much appreciate it.

@Former user doesn't that create in/out points? Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

A few new questions I have:

  1. Is there any dropped frames indicator I could toggle on so that if the preview drops frames for any reason it would let me know?
  2. Is there any bias in the development of Vegas towards any brand of hardware? For instance, Adobe is biased toward Intel and Nvidia, so much so that they don't offer any native acceleration for AMD CPU/GPU at all. Does Vegas work well with AMD components? I'd really like to go back to AMD GPUs with the price of Nvidia getting higher with every generation and my biggest bottleneck being my GPU.

What? what drop frames? if you want a kick ass system, then spent the money to get one. Just don't expect top performance with low budget system.

I am getting an average 51 frames rendering 4K from GH5 and getting 108 frame down convert to 1080P. As far as drop frames go. I can't reading faster enough to see any drop frame because it zipping it thru way to fast for my eyes to see any drop frames. :) See video link below.

https://vimeo.com/297646675

 

If I rendering from a 1080P file from Canon 5D3 I get 166 frames.

 

 

Last changed by BruceUSA on 10/29/2018, 7:10 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

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MBO: MSI Z890 MEG ACE Gaming Wifi 7 10G Super Lan, thunderbolt 4
RAM: 48GB RGB DDR5 8200mhz
GPU: NVidia RTX 5080 16GB Triple fan OCed 3100mhz, Bandwidth 1152 GB/s     
NVMe: 2TB T705 Gen5 OS, 4TB Gen4 storage
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Matthias-Claflin wrote on 10/28/2018, 11:41 PM

Thanks @NickHope and @Former user. In premiere it is a little light that goes yellow when you drop frames so I didn't even think to look for a real time readout of the fps.

 

@BruceUSA I'm curious what your system specs are? Looks pretty impressive.

BruceUSA wrote on 10/28/2018, 11:44 PM

Matthias. Click on my name to see system specs.

CPU:  i9 Core Ultra 285K OCed @5.6Ghz  
MBO: MSI Z890 MEG ACE Gaming Wifi 7 10G Super Lan, thunderbolt 4
RAM: 48GB RGB DDR5 8200mhz
GPU: NVidia RTX 5080 16GB Triple fan OCed 3100mhz, Bandwidth 1152 GB/s     
NVMe: 2TB T705 Gen5 OS, 4TB Gen4 storage
MSI PSU 1250W. OS: Windows 11 Pro. Custom built hard tube watercooling

 

                                   

                 

               

 

set wrote on 10/28/2018, 11:53 PM

In case you need to see tutorial to adapt yourself to Vegas Pro (mostly are classic tutorials - but the basic foundation is still the same) :
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-tutorials--103245/

Setiawan Kartawidjaja
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Video Card2: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6 (Driver Version 551.23 Studio Driver (Jan 24 2024 Release Date))
RAM: 32.0 GB
OS: Windows 10 Pro Version 22H2 OS Build 19045.3693
Drive OS: SSD 240GB
Drive Working: NVMe 1TB
Drive Storage: 4TB+2TB

 

System 2-2018:
ASUS ROG Strix Hero II GL504GM Gaming Laptop
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 8750H CPU @2.20GHz 2.21 GHz
Video Card 1: Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630 (Driver 31.0.101.2111)
Video Card 2: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB GDDR5 VRAM (Driver Version 537.58)
RAM: 16GB
OS: Win11 Home 64-bit Version 22H2 OS Build 22621.2428
Storage: M.2 NVMe PCIe 256GB SSD & 2.5" 5400rpm 1TB SSHD

 

* I don't work for VEGAS Creative Software Team. I'm just Voluntary Moderator in this forum.

Former user wrote on 10/29/2018, 4:51 AM

@Matthias-Claflin ... As per Nicks more accurate statement about “bias” I’ve corrected my previous post re: item 2, thanks Nick.

NickHope wrote on 10/29/2018, 6:12 AM

And I corrected my post from "Intel GPUs" to "NVIDIA GPUs"!

Matthias-Claflin wrote on 11/14/2018, 6:40 AM

Alright so after playing with the trial more extensively (only 11 days left in my trial), I have a few more questions... Please bear with me as I still feel like a novice when it comes to the way the Vegas workflow works.

1. Is there anyway to automate synchronizing clips (without pluraleyes)? I pretty heavily rely on this feature in Premiere to speed up my workflow. Is this a feature that exists or is expected to exist in the near future? (I just finished editing a 23 clip multi-cam timeline in premiere for instance).

2. I was wondering if there is a way to set up a batch render? I know that I routinely set 10+ projects to render with Adobe at a time (using media encoder). Is this something that exists currently or is expected to exist in the future?

Last changed by Matthias-Claflin on 11/14/2018, 6:41 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

PC:
i7 14700K
64GB DDR5 5600mhz
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060Ti
500GB SSD (OS)
2TB SSD (VEGAS Pro 16)

Laptop:
AMD Ryzen 7 5800H
16 GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050
500GB SSD

Cameras:
Canon C100
Canon 77D
Canon T3i

john_dennis wrote on 11/14/2018, 2:15 PM

"2. I was wondering if there is a way to set up a batch render?"

If you want to render multiple projects simultaneously, you can right click on the Vegas Pro icon and start as many instances of Vegas Pro as you want or as many as your machine resources can handle. I'm rendering two 45 minute projects while I type this.

Since my wife has me dusting the ceiling fans and such, I won't be needing to use the machine for a while though it is still responsive for non-editing work.

There is a Batch Render script built into Vegas Pro.

There are third party plug-ins also. Vegasaur, I think is one. 

Matthias-Claflin wrote on 12/19/2018, 8:39 PM

So I've officially made the switch to Vegas now and I definitely don't regret it. I was skeptical about people saying that cutting video was faster in Vegas, but this is absolutely true. Kind of amazed how easy it was to transition. The way it cuts is very intuitive.

That said, I'm not back here posting just to talk about how easy Vegas is to use compared to Premiere, but because I want to do something I can't quite figure out how to do... So I always edit my wedding highlight videos in 2.35:1 aspect. In Premiere, I just made the timeline/project 1920x817 and went on my way. I was wondering if there is a way to stop Vegas from resizing the videos when I drop them on the timeline? I don't want it to preserve the aspect ratio, I want it to drop my 1920x1080 files into a 1920x817 space (cutting off the top and bottom). Is there a way to accomplish this without adding a letterbox?

set wrote on 12/19/2018, 10:06 PM

Welcome to Vegas Pro 😊👍

in case you need some tutorials of Vegas Pro, you can find here.

The tutorials might be old, but the basic is still the same.

Setiawan Kartawidjaja
Bandung, West Java, Indonesia (UTC+7 Time Area)

Personal FB | Personal IG | Personal YT Channel
Chungs Video FB | Chungs Video IG | Chungs Video YT Channel
Personal Portfolios YouTube Playlist
Pond5 page: My Stock Footage of Bandung city

 

System 5-2021:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz   2.90 GHz
Video Card1: Intel UHD Graphics 630 (Driver 31.0.101.2127 (Feb 1 2024 Release date))
Video Card2: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6 (Driver Version 551.23 Studio Driver (Jan 24 2024 Release Date))
RAM: 32.0 GB
OS: Windows 10 Pro Version 22H2 OS Build 19045.3693
Drive OS: SSD 240GB
Drive Working: NVMe 1TB
Drive Storage: 4TB+2TB

 

System 2-2018:
ASUS ROG Strix Hero II GL504GM Gaming Laptop
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 8750H CPU @2.20GHz 2.21 GHz
Video Card 1: Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630 (Driver 31.0.101.2111)
Video Card 2: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB GDDR5 VRAM (Driver Version 537.58)
RAM: 16GB
OS: Win11 Home 64-bit Version 22H2 OS Build 22621.2428
Storage: M.2 NVMe PCIe 256GB SSD & 2.5" 5400rpm 1TB SSHD

 

* I don't work for VEGAS Creative Software Team. I'm just Voluntary Moderator in this forum.

Former user wrote on 12/19/2018, 10:19 PM

I don't know of anyway to make it fit your frame automatically, but the easiest way to do it (unfortunately for each event) , open PAN/CROP> Rightclick> select MATCH OUTPUT ASPECT.

There may be a script or maybe someone could write one that would do this for all scenes.

Matthias-Claflin wrote on 12/19/2018, 10:35 PM

I don't know of anyway to make it fit your frame automatically, but the easiest way to do it (unfortunately for each event) , open PAN/CROP> Rightclick> select MATCH OUTPUT ASPECT.

There may be a script or maybe someone could write one that would do this for all scenes.

I suspected this may be the best option. I think I'll just nest the project in a new project after I've edited it and then change the aspect on it and match output. In the meantime I'll just use a letterbox crop to make sure framing is right. Thanks for the quick responses as always!

NickHope wrote on 12/20/2018, 1:46 AM

I don't know of anyway to make it fit your frame automatically, but the easiest way to do it (unfortunately for each event) , open PAN/CROP> Rightclick> select MATCH OUTPUT ASPECT.

There may be a script or maybe someone could write one that would do this for all scenes.

Paste Event Attributes will do it, or Selectively Paste Event Attributes if you only want to paste pan/crop settings and not FX etc..

Or you can do it with track motion, but I suspect you would want to nudge framing up or down for individual events, so pan/crop is probably better. Doing that works very nicely just by using the UP and DOWN arrow keys, after clicking on the event pan/crop window for the selected event.

Dexcon wrote on 12/20/2018, 1:59 AM

Quite some years ago, a forum member provided a link to:

http://vashivisuals.com/tag/4k-aspect-ratio/

… which has a range of free widescreen templates (png).

It's purely a matter of putting the preferred template on the top video track on the timeline, stretching it out to the length of the project, and that's all there is to it.

I know that Matthias-Claflin said he didn't want to add a letterbox, but the template is just such an easy solution. And it has the advantage of being able to adjust the framing of each shot up or down via pan/crop to refine each shot's framing within the widescreen shape where necessary.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 20, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

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Matthias-Claflin wrote on 12/20/2018, 2:03 AM

Quite some years ago, a forum member provided a link to:

http://vashivisuals.com/tag/4k-aspect-ratio/

… which has a range of free widescreen templates (png).

It's purely a matter of putting the preferred template on the top video track on the timeline, stretching it out to the length of the project, and that's all there is to it.

I know that Matthias-Claflin said he didn't want to add a letterbox, but the template is just such an easy solution. And it has the advantage of being able to adjust the framing of each shot up or down via pan/crop to refine each shot's framing within the widescreen shape where necessary.

I do appreciate this. The reason I don't like the letterbox addition is that a lot of online players now are able to handle a variety of aspect ratios and when you export a 16:9 video with letterboxing instead of a 2.35:1 video it ensures that no matter what screen someone views your video on, it will have black on top and bottom, where as if you were to view a proper 2.35:1 video on a 2.35:1 monitor, places like Youtube or Vimeo would recognize it and not letterbox it, if that makes sense.

That said, this still could be useful, so I appreciate the link.