I forgive EVERYBODY!

Except the Mail sometimes.

No, I am so "odd" for the market that anybody will find it difficult to fit a camera to me.

Grazie, you are the market!

Better images and in english :
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/digital-cameras/canon-xh-g1-and-xh-a1-hdv-camcorders-189910.php

Having been loyal to Canon for many years.... my day has been made. We have heard how secretive Canon is, so when I cam across this thread I became very happy.

The cameras seem to offer much promise, they will be available this October and November. Well my '06 budget will be blownl

These will be a nice uprgrade from the GL1s. (never could justify replacing them with the GL2s).

Chad

I have to say that this really peaks my interest - I could never quite handle going with the 1/4" chips of the GL2 but this is a little larger chip and it seems to me at least that this will have the juice (not the juice that the DVX had, but the juice never the less).

Next year I think I'll be hitting the HD market - this year I'd like to get a New PC capable of handling it and next year make the move to HD power!!! Anyway - we'll have to see how the dollars flow before I go buying mylife away :), but it should be interesting.

Dave

I think there is going to be a longer story. This has truly set the cat amongst the pigeons.

* CMOS is going to appear in some strange combinations

* Hard disc drives are going to come even more ubiquitous

* Prices WILL come done

* I can't see any future semi pro camera NOT having the "3-Ring-Circus" well at least a zoom ring too!

Very exciting times Ladles & Gentlespoons! Very exciting indeed. Now what Wide Angle adaptor do I fix onto the front? My WD58H is gonna need to make an appearance on eBay.


Let me get this right? Canon have come out with a handheld camera with XLRS? AND a Zoom and Expo ring? Native 16:9 and Knee? Nah! I'll wake up in a minute . . oops! I am awake!

Grazie, what do you mean by "CMOS will appear in some strange combinations?"

I have absolutely NO trade knowledge and I did precurse (is that the correct word and spelling?) my comments with the "I think", and, as you sometomes point out "I think" is not "I know". But if "I think" about where it is now, Sony's budget end, maybe with future advances this could spread to other, more pro-cameras in the flotilla? One big chip as opposed to 3-chips being asked to dance in unison? Or is the CMOS technology not capable of going in this direction? Pray tell?

CMOS has *already* made it's way to large scale chips. Quite a while back. In fact, I'd wager if you search this forum (I know for certain it's on DVInfo.net), you'll see where about 2 years back, I was laughed out of the forum for suggesting that CMOS would replace CCDs. When the A1 came out, no one was laughing any longer.
Your comment about "strange configurations" caught me off guard.

CMOS is here to stay, here to grow, and you'll likely hear more and more about them. Just look at the differences between the HC1 and HC3 alone, that says a *lot* about what a third generation CMOS can do coupled with DSP.
CMOS is also under constant development as cell phones, webcams, laptops, and a host of other imaging devices require smaller, more efficient, and more sensitive imagers to be built in. We're a long, long way from tapping what's possible, I think. Just imagine a 3 chip CMOS cam using 2.00" CMOS chips...!

Woah! A 2" format?!? Can you just imagine the shallow DoF with that? Or have I got that wrong too?

Grazie, don't worry, CMOS technology was developed in the 70's. CMOS circuits are usually a lot larger in size vs other "IC'" designs. CMOS uses more "parts" in it operation, but offers greater power savings by the "nature" of the materials used to manufacture the designed "IC". The last 6 years has seen big improvements in reducing the size of CMOS IC building parts. Think of it ...ie.... like kid's LECOS. where most IC fab..parts were the size of LECOS and CMOS were the larger kiddie size LECOS. Today they are closer in size, but still not the same. But CMOS is superior in power and heat management. Usually a 2K CMOS sensor is physically larger than a 2K CCD sensor, but CMOS uses a lot less power plus will operate over a wider voltage range. The low heat generation is one of the secrets why CMOS circuits can be so large and not melt.

Is LECOS your version of the orignal European LEGOS?

Thanks - And? Will a potential 2" CMOS chip give shallower DoF or not? Now I am worried!

CMOS imagers are already in use in video cameras from Silicon Imaging (2/3" Bayer), Panavision Genesis (35mm oversampled, non Bayer).
The problem with going over 35mm is getting lenses to match, one could do a 65mm format and use the lenses made for IMAX but OUCH, the cost. The top shelf 35mm zooms will set you back USD50,000 and as someone pointed out to me a few days ago these beasts need regular servicing at $1,500 a time.

Read a few articles from those who shoot 65mm and you'll find they have the reverse problem, trying to get enough DOF under studio lighting. Once you get to 2/3" things almost start to go the other way from there on up

A 2/3" lens can be made to go one stop wider, so all else being equal you can get the same DOF from 2/3" and a 35mm sensor. .

But CMOS sensors are made in very large formats for still cameras, I think upto 120mm I think

OK, thanks Bob.

"A 2/3" lens can be made to go one stop wider, so all else being equal you can get the same DOF from 2/3" and a 35mm sensor. .

I now understand a wee bit more. Any thoughts when/if/could this trickle down to this very 'umble PITA?

Well,
I can see the camera side of things getting cheaper all the time. Lenses are another matter entirely. Talking to a learned gent a few days he pointed out it's not just the direct cost of making the beasties, it's the number they make and then have to trash because something went wrong. One lens he was talking about has 4 or 5 elements glued into a tube as part of the assembly. Each element in itself must be fairly expensive but quite regularly the gluing bit of the operation isn't right so the whole assemby gets trashed.

But apart from the optics it's really a question of volume. I seriously doubt Joe Average will want a very high quality camera for his family videos and I've experienced this first hand. Try getting someone to part with a few extra dollars to get even a tripod, no not a good one, just an extra $10 on the rental so the video don't wobble. The same people will gladly buy a box of tapes for 3 times that but a tripod, come on, no way.
Another time I was in a retail outlet that had a superceded Sony camera at a very good price. The newer model was nowhere near as good, worse glass, generally cheaper build and it was more expensive. But, and here was the clincher, it had a USB port. Neither the salesguy or me could convince the customer to save a few $100 and get a better camera, he just had to have that USB port.
What seems to be happening is what you get for around the USD5K to $10K mark is improving dramatically, who'd have believed you could buy something like the XL-H1 a few years ago. But the cost of a good HD zoom has gone up in price pretty much in line with inflation over time I think.

Bob.