Can you please share MediaInfo so we can understand which variety of HEVC this is?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

Is your only GPU the iGPU?

Hello everyone,

I am a pro filmmaker and just bought the Nikon Z8 camera. Unfortunately it takes forever for Vegas Pro 20.0 to read the video files. I can read them properly on Windows, but it seems impossible to play the videos smoothly on Vegas (plenty of lag and though the program doesn't crash, it also takes forever to render). My guess is that it comes from the H.265 format.

Maybe this helps: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/why-is-hevc-legacy-enabled-by-default--137154/

Hello,

Sorry for the delay and thanks for your replies.

So HEVC Legacy was disabled. I tried both (enabled/disabled) and it did not change anything.

Here is the media (video file) information, from MEDIAINFO + Vegas 20.0. Fingers crossed it helps! :

MEDIAINFO file information :

File size                                : 941 MiB
Duration                                 : 21 s 660 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 364 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 100.000 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2024-03-03 21:16:36 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-03-03 21:16:36 UTC

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L6.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 21 s 660 ms
Bit rate                                 : 361 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 100.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.435
Stream size                              : 932 MiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2024-03-03 21:16:36 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-03-03 21:16:36 UTC
Color range                              : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed
Codec ID                                 : lpcm
Duration                                 : 21 s 660 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 2 304 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 5.95 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2024-03-03 21:16:36 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-03-03 21:16:36 UTC

VEGAS information :

General
  Nombre: DSC_2932.MOV
  Carpeta: C:\Tim's Confidential Home\VIDEOS\GNOMO\Z8
  Tipo: HEVC
  Tamaño: 963,44 MB (986.561.140 bytes)
  Creado: miércoles, 6 de marzo de 2024, 11:53:34
  Modificado: domingo, 3 de marzo de 2024, 18:16:36
  Accedido: miércoles, 6 de marzo de 2024, 12:08:03
  Atributos: Archivo

Corrientes
  Vídeo: 00:00:21,660, 100,000 fps progresivo, 3840x2160x32, HEVC
  Audio: 00:00:21,660, 48.000 Hz; Estéreo, PCM

Resumen
  [TCFM]: 9

Información de ACID
  Grupo de ACID: no
  Grupo de extensión: no
  Lista de extensión: no
  Información de extensión 2: no
  Marcadores de golpe: no
  Golpes detectados: no

Otros metadatos
  Regiones/marcadores: no
  Marcadores de comando: no

Media Manager
  Etiquetas de medio: no

Plugin
  Nombre: so4compoundplug.dll
  Carpeta: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 20.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\so4compoundplug
  Formato: AVC
  Versión: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
  Empresa: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

@Timothy-Dhalleine

"Frame rate     : 100.000 FPS"

Do you plan to deliver your project at 100.000 FPS?

or

Do you plan to use the media for slow motion in a project with a lower frame rate, 29.970p etc.?

Then, the larger question: Why are you shooting at 100.000 FPS?

Hey John,

Most of the time I shoot at 4K 60 fps, just in case I want to do some slow motion, when (in that case) I shoot at 100 or 120 fps this is indeed because I am thinking in playing with slow mo

Best,

Tim

@Timothy-Dhalleine
My advice is
- Use proxies
- Do the trial of Vegas 21 as soon as a you see here a new build for Vegas21 available

Unfortunately it takes forever for Vegas Pro 20.0 to read the video files

That's probably because Vegas is rendering a Proxy File, which is a surrogate that is used on the timeline to give you a less painful editing experience. Yes, it takes a l-o-n-g time to build, but when it's done, your project will load quickly next time and your timeline performance will be improved.

Even if you shot at a deliverable frame rate as @john_dennis pointed out, and a sane bitrate (75-100 Mbps maybe?) it's still a wise move to create a Proxy File, because HEVC is itself daunting to decode for editing in real time.

Load your files in Vegas, check the progress bar on the lower left of your screen, and take a drive in the country while your proxies simmer. Both you and Vegas will be less stressed.

Going forward, even though your camera is capable of it, I am reasonably certain you are not shooting to deliver Cinema DCP, so your acquisition format should reflect your delivery intentions, whatever those may be.

Some "suggested" starting points for adjustments to your camera settings are shown, assuming you will be delivering for your home theater or online streaming delivery in the 2020s.

• Bit rate                                 : ~100 Mbps (Youtube will cut that in half anyway)
• Frame rate                          : 25 or 30 FPS, NO MORE Than 60 FPS
• Audio Format                       : PCM (Well, ok, but use AAC if there are minor sync issues)
• Audio Bit depth                     : 16 bits, 48Khz (That is the standard for video delivery)

Most of the time I shoot at 4K 60 fps, just in case I want to do some slow motion, when (in that case) I shoot at 100 or 120 fps this is indeed because I am thinking in playing with slow mo

Vegas does a nice job with Smart Resample and SloMo, both of which use Optical Flow Resampling, so I don't bother with time stretching any more, which must be done at exact common integer factors, such as 50 and 25 FPS in order to retain frame integrity.

Thanks for your answers! I tried all of these options - and will try with Vegas 21 - but the issue is definitely HEVC. I used Adobe Media encoder to conver the files into H264 and unlike H265, it runs smoothly even at the same FPS. Though there is a slight quality drop, it still works fine.

And "unfortunately" yes, I do deliver Cinema DCP so this makes a difference to me, though it still works okay for the kind of festivals where the documentaries are featured. I hope H265 becomes a more "user-friendly" format in a near future!

I used Adobe Media encoder to conver the files into H264 and unlike H265, it runs smoothly even at the same FPS.

Yep. AVC has about 1/2 the compression ratio, so it is easier and faster to decode than the relatively smaller HEVC files.

Though there is a slight quality drop, it still works fine.

HEVC was developed to give "about" the same quality at a lower bitrate and file size than AVC; it does not have any inherent "better quality." Tests of different software encoders still give AVC the overall slight quality advantage.

And "unfortunately" yes, I do deliver Cinema DCP so this makes a difference to me

Wow! Do keep us informed on your releases and festival entries, they will get noticed here.

I hope H265 becomes a more "user-friendly" format in a near future.

Now ten years in, it is doubtful the format will mature much more for direct nonlinear editing. Of course, the same complaints were leveled at MPEG-2 in the days of 80286 / 120Mhz processors and no acceleration...

Takeaway: As computer hardware and decoders continue to improve over time, the handling of .h265 / HEVC / HDR media will continue to improve, right until the next round of juggernaut acquisition codecs are released. We will, once again, be left patiently waiting for hardware technology (and equipment prices) to double yet once again. Fortunately, I don't plan to make the plunge.

Truth is, this stuff wasn't made for editing. It will always be a game of catch-up.

Thank you so much! What an awesome community.

My last short documentary "The Present" edited with Vegas 20.0 is featured in some big adventure film festivals, the last one being the Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival : https://vimff.org/film/the-present/

Trailer is available on

Cheers!

That's top-tier work, and well beyond my abilities, wish I was thirty years younger.

Welcome to the discussions, I know you will be a valuable contributor,

And "unfortunately" yes, I do deliver Cinema DCP so this makes a difference to me, though it still works okay for the kind of festivals where the documentaries are featured. I hope H265 becomes a more "user-friendly" format in a near future!

It's a problem for Vegas 20, less so VP21, and it's not a problem for other Video editors.

I looked at your promo, it was at 30fps, rather than 24, so I set project as 30fps.

Vegas21 will play Z9120fps HEVC 10bit (non conformed) at 30fps without problem, at 25%, meaning Vegas is now playing all frames no problem, at 2x, ie 240fps Vegas runs out of steam. The other problem is currently blended transitions and blending with other shots on another track doesn't work properly, and everything slows down.

HEVC playback in VP21 is much better but with some caveats. The actual playback capability for this 120fps file is around 56fps at Best/Full, which makes it quite usable played back at lower frame rates.

I realized a logic problem with the blend test, I've already established Vegas can't handle 240fps, but with the blend that's effectively what's happening, This is playback at 25% or 30fps, so the transition is Vegas having to read 60fps simultaneously which it should be able to do

This piqued my interest, so I recorded the game this morning at 1920x1080-119.88p 100 Mbps XAVC. It wasn't a problem with my machine on the Vegas 21-208 timeline at the native frame rate. I always have the option of slow motion when delivering at a lower frame rate.

If my camera recorded 3840x2160-59.94p, I'd probably shoot that all the time.

I did have to lose my ND filter on a ~cloudy day. f7.1, 1/250 sec, ISO 160, Sony Picture Profile 6.

Maybe, I'll make it to my grave without ever using HEVC as an acquisition codec.

Thank you so much! What an awesome community.

My last short documentary "The Present" edited with Vegas 20.0 is featured in some big adventure film festivals, the last one being the Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival : https://vimff.org/film/the-present/

Trailer is available on

Cheers!

Really beautiful story and of course visuals. I hope it gets international distribution soon so I can see it in full.