jpegs frustration

fordie wrote on 7/23/2009, 12:33 AM

Good morning,
okay ive upgraded to 9a from 8c (32bit versions) and yet I still cannot render out a time line that has large jpegs in it (2187x1097)
system specs are
vista 64
intel quad core @2.8
4gig ddr
vegas 9a 32 bit

The reason for the upgrade was to enable the easier use of jpegs, i.e panning across them . I can do this in after effects , bluff titler or even windows movie maker !
so can someone please advise me what size jpeg vegas will use and perhaps what file vegas prefers if it chokes on jpegs.
I know this has been discussed before but I never really saw a solution apart from dropping cores down to 1 to render (is that a joke)
sorry to sound slightly tense but having just spent best part of £200 on an upgrade mid project (stupid i know) Im now wondering if I should have bothered.
sony do advertise vegas 9 as being able to handle large jpegs...
Thank you, john

oh yes I have downloaded 64bit vegas but it wont use MB looks plug in or AAC colour lab plug in so its not much help...

Comments

ushere wrote on 7/23/2009, 2:51 AM

why not simply convert your jpg's to vegas friendly png's?

i regularly use (and have done so since7), 3000 X 2000 from my nikon, scans, whatever. however, like avchd, i much prefer converting to a vegas friendly format BEFORE discovering any problems.....

TheHappyFriar wrote on 7/23/2009, 4:19 AM

I to use jpg's straight from my camera (8mp) with no issue.

it's something particular to what you're doing/your system. Vegas hasn't had a problem using jpeg's since I can remember.

fordie wrote on 7/23/2009, 4:28 AM

ok your probably right as ive just had a crash having removed the jpegs.
it reports low system memory .
time for a fault ticket perhaps

fordie wrote on 7/23/2009, 6:23 AM

What i have noticed is that after rendering a project I then close vegas 9 and if i look in task manager vegas 9 is still listed .under processes as running with 25% cpu load. now if that is the case perhaps that could be the cause of the memory issue.
The first time this happened i though it was because of a crash and vegas just hadnt closed properly but this time i rendered a mp4 file after a reboot , closed vegas and there it was still running in task manager.

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 7/23/2009, 7:29 AM

Can anyone else do this test and see if they get the same error.

Add 1 JPG (8MP) on the time line. Then add about 11 PanCrop keys.

When it gets to the 7th or 8th key the pic gets blurred and stays blurred. The 9th key is always blurred even in the final mpeg render.

xberk wrote on 7/23/2009, 9:05 AM

pic gets blurred and stays blurred.

Blurred in preview window or after rendering?
I have seen the blurry preview window on much smaller jpegs -- but not on rendering. Setting preview to GOOD/FULL seems to help.

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 7/23/2009, 10:55 AM

It is in the final render it just blurs for that 1 key. I have reproduced this thats why I'm asking you guys to do a test as well.

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 7/23/2009, 11:03 AM

Ok do this:

1X 8mp on the timeline.
Add about 10 PanCrops but make the keys do a complete circle. Sometimes it fails to render but if it does then it's blurred.

R0cky wrote on 7/23/2009, 11:59 AM

I use a lot of huge still panoramas. I have found that PNG are definitely more render friendly than jpegs. That is, the still can be significantly larger before Vegas will crash.

In 9 (dunno about 9a yet) I have found the crash threshold for PNGs to be somewhere between 20 and 50 Mpixels. That is, for a certain still I tested with it worked resized to 20 and crashed at 50.

This same 50 Mpixel still renders completely in 9a but there are severe color errors.
The 9a release notes mention an MS hotfix for this if you are running Vista and they are jpegs. I am on XP and they are PNGs - I haven't tried the hot fix yet. Sony tech support has been very responsive, has my project and media, and have reproduced it.

More detail in

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=659000

john-beale wrote on 7/23/2009, 12:07 PM

I am rendering a test now, Vegas 9a on WinXP SP2 32bit, using a 15 Mpixel 50D JPEG (4770 x 3177). I'll report my results when it's done. I'm rendering to Sony AVC, using 1920x1080 24p 16 Mbps.

If there is a bug it may be triggered by any number of very specific things. So it might be helpful if you could post a self-contained .veg to see if the problem is reproduced elsewhere.

EDIT: Oops, turns out I have no software that can play AVC except Vegas itself so that's not a good test. I made a 1080p24 MPEG2 (.m2t) and played it back on my PS3. Looks fine. I used 16 pan/crop control points and zoomed around the image in a spiral pattern- no problem.

fordie wrote on 7/23/2009, 12:29 PM

well changed preview ram to zero and so far so good, would changing to 8gb ram make a difference, not sure with vegas 32 even though im running vista 64

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 7/23/2009, 1:00 PM

So where do you change "preview ram" to zero? I'm using XP64 and SV9a 64bit.

I don't think it the number of keys that make it blur but rather when the pic is rotated just past 45 degrees. If you keep rotating it past 70 degrees then it sharpens up again.

Anybody else getting that?

john-beale wrote on 7/23/2009, 1:20 PM

Wow, you are RIGHT! Past 45 degrees rotation the JPEG becomes completely blurry in the preview window.

However, this didn't happen when I tried it first. It did happen when I reset the frame to be 16x9. At first, something about the pan/crop window had defaulted to something that cropped the 16x9 (1920x1080) preview video frame to have black bars on the sides. Maybe giving the same aspect ratio as the 3:2 jpeg image. Does this have to do with source image and video image pixel aspect ratio, perhaps?

The resolution difference is not exactly subtle! (see images below)

xberk wrote on 7/23/2009, 5:52 PM

I'm seeing this behavior on any size jpg -- as small as 450 x 400 in 9.0a .. I see it on a rotate at about 45 degree then it clears and then again by 225 .. YEP! .. I see it in preview and on renders. Doesn't seem to matter how many keyframes. I see it with just two keyframes. I have not tested with 9.0 or 8.0c ..

farss wrote on 7/23/2009, 6:04 PM

You are doing this at Best?

Bob.

john-beale wrote on 7/23/2009, 6:23 PM

The fuzzy-JPEG-after-rotation problem occurs for me with all preview resolutions, including "Best-Full". The exported images I posted were both best-full. (although even the worst preview quality isn't normally as bad as the 45 deg. shot, is it for you?)

EDIT kind of fun: In Draft-Auto mode, the preview resolution starts out coarse but usable. Then as I approach 45 degrees it drops down, to 8 pixels across, 4, 2, 1 and then none! (black screen) at 45 degrees. A pretty obvious bug there.

rs170a wrote on 7/23/2009, 6:58 PM

Using XP Pro 32 bit with 8.0c, everything is fine.
Using 9.0a with a 2576 x 1932 1.36 MB still on a 12 sec. 360° rotation, my screen goes completely black at at 135° and 315° forward and -45° and -225° in reverse.
The image starts gets noticeably fuzzier 10° before and after the above noted points.
I tried it with a JPG and PNG of the same image and it was the same with both formats.
Looks like a bug to me :-(

edit: submitted report to Tech Support referencing this thread

Mike

MTuggy wrote on 7/23/2009, 11:48 PM

Fordie, boost your virtual memory to 1.5 times your total RAM, split it on your C and D drives (i.e. 8 GB RAM = two 6GB page files on the two drives). I have not had a jpeg crash since I did that.

MT

fordie wrote on 7/24/2009, 12:09 AM

Thanks MT, Just awaiting delivery today of the new 8gb sticks of ram.
So far though dropping the dynamic ram to zero has solved the problem. rendering the jpegs fine, not rotating just slow pans and zooms.

its under preferences, video (sorry for not replying sooner to that question)

ritsmer wrote on 7/24/2009, 1:01 AM

Dunno if you know it, and dunno if it helps in your case - but the "2GB-hack" does wonders on my machine (Windows 7 x64 + Vegas 9.0a x32):

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=650217

Just tried here adding some 300 jpegs 2592x1944x24 ca. 2 MB a piece and rendered that to 1280x720 30 Fps m2t - absolutely no problems.
Btw the render of this 25 min timeline took 6 min 30 seconds.

fordie wrote on 7/24/2009, 4:04 AM

Hi, just tried the >2gb hack and the memory usage has gone up slightly, once this project is out I will do more trials, its just a relief to be rendering again.
note to self....never upgrade in middle of project....
thanks for all the advice..john

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 7/24/2009, 6:42 AM

LOL Fordie " Note to self................."

It would be great if SV has an option "Save as" then select older version just like CorelDraw. I too had to redo the whole proj over in SV8.

farss wrote on 7/24/2009, 7:04 AM

After Effects has a increment and save option. A simple bit of code that can be a lifesaver. Then again I always do this with Vegas anyway, I've become used to having 20 or 30 versions of projects. There's also a Autosave script available for free that does the same trick as AE for you without you even having to remember to do it.

Bob.

farss wrote on 7/24/2009, 7:07 AM

I just tried this with 1920x1080 images, same thing happened.
What a curious bug.

Bob.