M2TS from Hauppauge PVR Crashes Vegas 9.0b

hydrogin wrote on 2/25/2010, 8:00 PM

I've been using a Hauppauge HD PVR to capture from a VCR and create M2TS files. Unfortunately, every time I try to drop one of those M2TS files into a timeline in Vegas 9.0b, Vegas will crash.

Anybody have this problem, or know how to resolve it?

The PVR comes with Arcsoft's Total Media Extreme software. TME can create M2TS or TS files using constant or variable bitrates, and the audio can either be AC3 or AAC (I use AC3). Vegas always crashes independent of what video bitrates are used.

I've done some google searches and this seems to be a common problem. Some Vegas users claim they have no problems reading M2TS from Hauppauge, but they often don't indicate if they are Vegas Pro users, and they often don't indicate which particular Hauppauge device they're using (which may use different 3rd-party software for the digital encoding).

Currently, I'm thinking about using Tsmuxer to separate out the video and audio tracks to see if I can identify which of the two Vegas might be having problems with (never used Tsmuxer but shouldn't be difficult).

Any tips are greatly appreciated.

Comments

hydrogin wrote on 2/26/2010, 1:05 AM

Well, I tried using the popular Tsmuxer to read the M2TS file and do a simple operation like trimming the first few seconds. Tsmuxer can't ID what the video and audio streams are. So the M2TS being created by Hauppauge and Arcsoft TME must be an unusual "flavor".

For fun, I tried reading an MTS file from my Panasonic TS1 digicam (shot in AVCHD) and Tsmuxer had no problem identifying the video & audio streams.

I also tried using WinFF (based on the famous FFmpeg) to conver/transcode the M2TS into something else (AVI with Xvid) and that worked! So ... having lots of mixed compatibility results here.

I may give up on this unless someone has some ideas.

Eugenia wrote on 2/26/2010, 1:34 AM

XViD is a lossy encoder, you're losing quality by using it. If you want to not lose quality, use Huffyuv via WinFF, or DNxHD. Files will be huge of course, since these are intermediate formats.

Markk655 wrote on 2/26/2010, 5:31 AM

A quick guess. try out multiavchd. It is free. And might recognize the m2ts files and re-encode them into something Vegas understands.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/26/2010, 7:21 AM

You may want to try out the VideoReDo TVSuite H264 beta. It was made to work with these files, but it is still a work in progress, so your ymmv.

M_Matt wrote on 2/26/2010, 11:20 AM

I have Movie Studio Platinum and a Hauppauge HD-PVR, and the M2TS files cause MSP to crash.

I downloaded a trial version of Vegas Pro and it handled them like a hot knife through butter. I also downloaded Movie Studio HD, the new budget version of Vegas, and it chokes on the Hauppauge files just like MSP.

I happen to have Pinnacle Ultimate 12; it's only redeeming feature is that it handles the Hauppauge files like a champ. I convert to AVI and then bring the monsters into MSP.

But I only do that for High Def. For standard def - like your VCR - I capture via a Hauppauge TV card in my PC. It takes S-Video and cable input and produces an easy to edit Mpeg-2 file. If your capture isn't a one-off, you might like to consider that route.

hydrogin wrote on 2/26/2010, 4:53 PM

Thanks to everyone for their comments!

I found some threads in the Vegas Pro forum about an M2TS issue that is related to enabling Vegas and its underlying DLL's to utilize more than 2GB of virtual memory. A nice summary was written by David Knight here:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=697123

So I tried the workaround today on my 32-bit XP machine (including the /3GB switch for boot.ini) but the problem did not go away :(

I should also mention that the M2TS being created by the Hauppauge & Arcsoft TME system appears to be AVCHD-compliant in that the video codec used is H.264 and the audio is AC3. In other words, it doesn't look like a more general type of Blue Ray M2TS where other codecs are allowed by that standard. The Mirrilis Splash Lite and VLC players work fine with this M2TS, but oddly enough, Media Player Classic - Home Cinema edition does not. I'm mentioning this because I'm still wary about whether this is a codec issue. I thought Vegas was capable of using external DirectShow codecs (like FFDshow or others like Divx and XviD) so maybe I'm missing the right codec? Small chance it seems.

M. Matt - Good tip about Vegas Pro. This is a short-term project, so I may just install the Pro demo, assuming that Movie Studio and Pro can coexist on the same PC.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/26/2010, 7:02 PM

"appears to be AVCHD-compliant in that the video codec used is H.264 and the audio is AC3."
That may be, but it might be using high profile which Vegas doesn't necessarily like.

Upload a short clip from your Hauppage somewhere and let us have a look at it.
Have you tried VideoReDo h.264 Beta?

hydrogin wrote on 2/26/2010, 9:01 PM

musicvid - interesting point. Are there any tools that will analyze an H.264-encoded video and indicate what encoding level was used? I believe there's a tool called "videospec" for Mac platform that does this.

No, I haven't tried VideoReDo yet. I would be motivated if it could reveal something about the profile/level.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/26/2010, 9:12 PM

Your best two tools in this respect are MediaInfo and GSpot. Both are free.

MediaInfo seems to be better at keeping pace with newer codecs, and shows lots of information including profile and levels.

GSpot, when it understands the codec, will provide more complex information including GOP structure. It hasn't worked very will with H264/AVC in my experience.

VideoReDo is a muxer and joiner / splitter. It doesn't provide much information about your source files, but I still suggest you give it a try.

I would still like to see a sample of one of your files.

hydrogin wrote on 2/26/2010, 9:19 PM

Problem solved!

Sort of ... I ended up installing the Vegas Pro 9.0c demo and trying it out (per M. Matt's suggestion). Sure enough, using the same M2TS file that Movie Studio 9.0b crashes on, Pro has no problem. I was able to drop the clip into the timeline and render successfully.

I was going to try using some of Pro's M2TS-related IO plugin DLLs with Movie Studio. But looking at the IO Plugin folders for Vegas Pro, they're organized quite differently than Movie Studio's.

I also tried using Movie Studio after the successful render with Vegas Pro - hoping that something Pro might have installed was globally accessible by Movie Studio. No luck, Movie Studio still crashed.

So in summary, I wasn't able to get Movie Studio 9.0b to work with the M2TS created by Hauppauge/Arcsoft, but Vegas Pro 9.0c has no problems. I suppose holding my breath for a patch from Sony would not be wise :)

musicvid10 wrote on 2/26/2010, 9:25 PM

The Vegas Pro 9 engine has been updated since the last Vegas Movie Studio release. That explains the difference. It is Sony's habit to include compatibility upgrades in the next release of Studio, jfyi. However, no one knows when that is going to happen. That is why we like to see samples of problem files in order to come up with workarounds in the meantime (is that a strong enough hint?).
;?)

hydrogin wrote on 2/26/2010, 9:36 PM

musicdvd, thanks for the great tip on MediaInfo. I also use Gspot and have found it doesn't seem to keep up with H.264/AVC.

MediaInfo is reporting my M2TS clip's profile/level = Main@L3.1.

I'd be happy to get an M2TS sample file to you. I'll have to record something new that is short, no big deal. Any ideas how to get it to you? Perhaps an FTP drop site?

musicvid10 wrote on 2/26/2010, 9:40 PM

Several people here use MediaFire and Rapidshare for uploads. There are others.

hydrogin wrote on 2/27/2010, 12:37 AM

For those interested, I've created two new sample M2TS clips using the Hauppauge HD PVR and Arcsoft TotalMediaExtreme system. The clips are available for download here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?w2jzmzadhnz

http://www.mediafire.com/?ztcmkjgywzw

The clips run for 3 and 20 seconds, respectively. Both are 720x480, H.264/AVC and AC3. I believe the bit rate was constant @12Mbps. MediaInfo says the profile and level are Main@L3.1.

When the 6s clip is dropped into Movie Studio 9.0b, there are no problems. It can be played/previewed and combined with other large source clips (e.g. an XviD AVI). But if the 20s clip is also dropped in, Movie Studio will crash. In fact, when the 20s clip is dropped in my itself, Movie Studio will quickly crash after the audio peaks are built.

All of the above can be done using Vegas Pro 9.0c with no problems. In fact, I dropped in a 5GB (approx 1 hour running time) M2TS clip created by Hauppauge/TME into Vegas Pro with no problems (haven't tried rendering it).

I'll be interested in hearing from anyone who tries out my two sample clips.

hydrogin wrote on 2/27/2010, 2:02 AM

Regarding VideoReDo TV Suite w/H264 ...

I downloaded the latest H264 beta version (build 596) from here for a quick spin:

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=15759

Unfortunately, it error'd out when attempting to read both TS and M2TS files created by the Hauppauge/TME system.

********* Correction *********

VideoReDo TV Suite w/H264 does indeed work on the Hauppauge/TME M2TS files. I accidentally used the beta for the non-H264 version of VideoReDo. The link to the beta in this message is correct.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/27/2010, 7:54 AM

Unfortunately, it error'd out when attempting to read both TS and M2TS files created by the Hauppauge/TME system.
Drat. I'm sure they would be interested if you were to post your problem details on their forum.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/27/2010, 8:18 AM

hydrogin,
Your files open and play fine in Vegas Pro 8.0c, which surprises me, since it uses essentially the same engine as Movie Studio Platinum 9.

Oh, you are using one of the Movie Studio Platinum versions, right? (regular VMS doesn't support HD or AVCHD, as I'm sure you already know).

But, if you are going to upgrade anyway, Vegas Pro may be your best bet. Platinum's AVCHD support is still weak in some areas.

BTW, I personally appreciate it when a new user such as you comes in asking good questions and comes off as an intelligent life form, without trying to convince everyone that they already know all there is to know. Congratulations and welcome to the forums!

Yanksfan2194 wrote on 2/27/2010, 4:58 PM

hey man the first one worked but the second one did not...we have the same problem I think...If you find a solution could you email me at Ayankspatsfan@aol.com?

hydrogin wrote on 2/27/2010, 5:12 PM

musicvid - that's right, I'm using Movie Studio Platinum ("Vegas MSP9.0b").

Interesting the clips drop into Vegas Pro 8.0c. Hopefully others will download my clips to verify Vegas MSP9.0b's behavior.

BTW, I made a correction in my previous post, VideoReDo H264 beta does work OK with the Hauppauge HD PVR M2TS clips. I was able to perform a trim/cut edit and write the result back out in M2TS. Nice to be able to do a native edit w/o transcode. I'll have to play with VideReDo some more, thanks for the recommendation. The frame display is interesting ... assuming the source profile/level allows them, I wonder if VideoReDo can tell the user which frames are B, P, and I frames (seems like trimming so that a clip starts with an I-frame makes sense)?

Thanks, this is a great forum. I'm fairly new to multimedia so can use all the help I can get!

hydrogin wrote on 2/27/2010, 5:25 PM

Yanksfan - Thanks for trying those clips. I feel a lot better knowing the problem can be replicated by someone else.

You're using Vegas Movie Studio Platinum, right? The regular non-Platinum version won't work with the kinds of files the Hauppauge HD PVR produces.

FYI, in your account profile ("My Account" link) you can enable the setting so that people can send you a message by clicking your handle, so long as you have a legit email address associated with your account. That way you won't have to type your email address - some webcrawler software might scan these forums and make your inbox a target of junk mail, etc.

Yanksfan2194 wrote on 2/27/2010, 5:31 PM

forgive me if I don't have the write wording I am not very technical at all.

I bought a direct download version for about 39 dollars from sonys website.

I think it is Vegas Movie Studio HD 9.0

Can that handle .M2TS files from the hauppauge?

If not could maybe give me a link to a different program that can digest those files?

Markk655 wrote on 2/27/2010, 5:57 PM

Hydrogin,

I can confirm that the Olympics clip played just fine in Vegas Movie studio Platinum 9.0b (build 92) running Windows Vista (C2D 2.66 GHz, 4 GB RAM). I can also tell you that it is using the Vegas m2tsplug.dll plugin.

hydrogin wrote on 2/27/2010, 6:04 PM

Yanksfan - You're good. Vegas Movie Studio HD supports the AVC/H.264 encoding that's used in the M2TS files created by the Hauppauge HD PVR. I read somewhere that Vegas MSHD is similar to the Vegas Movie Studio Platinum that I use except that MSHD doesn't have the DVD creation tool (DVD Architect). Besides, you were able to drop in that first short clip so that's an indication of compatibility.

If you want to edit your Hauppauge files (remove commercials, mix and match with other video clips, add text and video effects, play the results on your PC or put them up on Youtube, then MSHD should be fine - except for this bug we've run into. MSHD is also good for editing videos made up of material from other sources like digicams or camcorders.

Yanksfan2194 wrote on 2/27/2010, 6:07 PM

Hahaha so everything is fine except for this little bug.

Any ideas on how to fix the bug? I am planning on calling sony on monday when their customer service lines open up