I have been using Windows Live Movie Maker while waiting for this bug to be fixed but it just does not stack up.

Here is my youtube channel where I have already posted some videos with windows live movie maker. The quality is not as good as it should be with the hauppauge and I cannot do commentary with windows live.

youtube.com/AGonPS3

I am currently using the ArcSoft Media Converter that came with the hauppauge to convert the .M2TS files into .MP4

Maybe vegas will handle those better

Yanksfan - What operating system are you running ... XP, Vista, or Windows 7? If you know whether its 32-bit or 64-bit, that would help too (the Sony rep may ask you when you call).

64 bit windows 7

"I wonder if VideoReDo can tell the user which frames are B, P, and I frames (seems like trimming so that a clip starts with an I-frame makes sense)?

I suppose it "could" tell you but that is completely unnecessary in VideoReDo. You see, every time you trim, split, or join clips (even from multiple files) in VideoReDo, it re-indexes the entire GOP structure from beginning to end, all in the blink of an eye, and all without re-encoding. That is the beauty of this program! That's why you get frame-accurate edits without needing to know where the closest I-frame is. How it handles B-frames is a mystery, and I bet the developers aren't telling . . .

BTW, always run Quickstream Fix first when importing pvr files.

6 s clip was successful. The 20 second clip could be placed on the timeline, but Vegas crashed partway through the clip. Reproducibly crashed- although not always at the same spot. Plays fine in other playerslike Nero, so appears to be specific to VMSP.

Also, multiAVCHD gave a few errors when I tried to re-encode the file as well so that was unsuccessful.

But I only do that for High Def. For standard def - like your VCR - I capture via a Hauppauge TV card in my PC.

This was the only mention that I could see so far of this, but the question has not been asked .. so I'll ask:

Why are you capturing Standard Def in this file format? I would think the TV tuner card has multiple format capability.

Also, multiAVCHD gave a few errors when I tried to re-encode the file as well so that was unsuccessful.

Markk655 - could you please try dropping this into VMSP and multiAVCHD and let me know how it goes? I bet this will work. Its another version of that 20 second clip:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ihynmoydmkj

Why are you capturing Standard Def in this file format? I would think the TV tuner card has multiple format capability.

I'm not sure who the question is being addressed to ...

In case anyone's wondering, the Hauppauge HD PVR will accept both SD and HD inputs (1080i, 720p). The PVR box acts as a signal decoder & digitizer. The bundled Arcsoft TME recording software provides only two options for encoding & encapsulating the digital stream. For video, AVC/H264 in either TS or M2TS containers. For audio, AC3 or AAC.

I've read that many Hauppauge HD PVR owners prefer Snapstream's Beyond TV over Arcsoft's suite.

BTW, always run Quickstream Fix first when importing pvr files.

Importing to VideoReDo ... and possibly other applications!?

I work in scientific imaging where compression is almost never used. So I know nothing about the structure of MPEG streams, or most home/consumer video things for that matter. But I do know a good idea when I see one :)

I read that VideoReDo's Quickstream Fix (QSF) will clean up MPEG streams (as in M2TS = MPEG 2 Transport Stream) that come from devices like PVR's and satellite receivers. Specifically, QSF will fix timestamps that somehow get out-of-order or get the wrong values. So I figured if VideoReDo is sometimes sensitive to out-of-sequence timestamps, that might be a problem for Vegas too.

So I decided to run QSF on the 20 second M2TS clip that has been a problem for everyone who has tried it with VMSP or VMSHD. I then took the resulting M2TS file and dropped it into VMSP. The result ... no crash!!!

In fact, I took a number of different M2TS clips created by the PVR system (all cause VMSP to crash) and ran them through QSF. All the resulting M2TS files were dropped into VMSP and rendered with no problems.

I've uploaded one of the "cleaned" M2TS files here for others to try and verify:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ihynmoydmkj

So I suspect the situation we have is ... the Hauppauge PVR system produces an MPEG stream (in an M2TS file) that contains non-sequential time-stamps, or possibly some other form of corruption (why that is, I do not know). Some programs can handle these "dirty" streams with no problem (i.e. Vegas Pro, VideoReDo). But other programs may not be so robust when it comes to handling such streams (i.e. VMSP, VMSHD). This theory is consistent with the fact that all my very short M2TS clips, including the 6 sec clip, are OK with VMSP but the 20 sec and longer clips are not - the longer the clip is, the more chances there are of creating bad time-stamps.

For now, it looks like the two ways to work around this problem are:

1. Use Vegas Pro 8.0c or 9.0c.

2. Run your Hauppauge/TME M2TS files though VideoReDo's QSF before using Vegas MSP or MSHD. Make sure the M2TS file type is selected in the output box.

I've sent Sony Creative a tech support request with the link to this thread. OK, back to the Winter Olympics :)

i read that all and it sounds like you figured it out!!

Sadly I understood none of that...Could you tell me how to fix the crash?

do you think you could post a link to download the videoredo QSF?

Check out the link in my 2/27/2010 2:02:05 AM post. From there you can download a beta version of VideReDo's software. It includes the "Quickstream Fix" tool that I've been using the fix/clean my Hauppauge M2TS files before dropping them into Vegas MSP. You should be able to do the same with your copy of Vegas MSHD.

This is just a short-term fix because the beta software expires in a few weeks (you could just download the next beta version when its available). But eventually, you'd need to either buy VideoRedo or use a different way to clean the M2TS. Hopefully by then, Sony will have a patch out for this specific problem.

I downloaded it...what exactly do I do in it to clean up the files for Vegas?

woops i figured it out...youve been such a big help..many thanks!

When I import the cleaned up file into Vegas it is only sound...where did the video go?

VideRedo's quick instructions on how to run Quickstream Fix:

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=5713

For a Hauppauge M2TS clip, no need to use the Filter option. No need to use the Select Streams button - but if you do click on that button, you should see one line for your video and another for your audio. You could verify both streams are there. You should see one line that says H264/AVC and another below that indicates the audio codec you told TotalMediaExtreme to use - either AC3 or AAC.

Just browse to your M2TS file (make sure to have the M2TS file type selected) and specify where you want the cleaned file to go (again, make sure the M2TS file type is selected in the spin box). That's it.

So I suspect the situation we have is ... the Hauppauge PVR system produces an MPEG stream (in an M2TS file) that contains non-sequential time-stamps, or possibly some other form of corruption (why that is, I do not know). Some programs can handle these "dirty" streams with no problem (i.e. Vegas Pro, VideoReDo). But other programs may not be so robust when it comes to handling such streams (i.e. VMSP, VMSHD).

You are correct in your conclusion, and almost correct in your reasoning. Actually, this problem happens with all broadcast material recorded by any means, thus the need to clean up bad frames with QSF before working with them, esp. in other applications. I discovered this with my set-top Panny DVD-RAM recorder and OTA broadcasts when importing into Vegas.

You see, in any broadcast medium, OTA, Cable, Satellite, there are transmission errors that result in corrupt frames being recorded. Sometimes you can see the errors, sometimes you can't. But with broadcast, there is no look-ahead capability, so no error correction. Every player employs error correction, some are better than others. But we would not expect (or want) our NLE to do so.

That all being said, you are right to make light of Vegas' "pickiness" in opening or working with files that have maybe only one corrupt frame. It is something that should be addressed, and I have encountered it many times, even with camcorder captures.

This thread is an example of how right thinking and cooperation will produce solutions and workarounds. Good work.

I agree. Good teamwork everyone! But your mentioning of VideoRedo was crucial. I didn't expect it to work its way into the conclusion.

The big picture on EDC issues is helpful (I used to design "FEC" Forward Error Correction chips for data communications apps). I can see I've got a lot to learn about multimedia. Just seeing new buzzwords and ideas is immensely helpful so I can look them up.

I've now run QSF on many M2TS files created by the Hauppauge HD PVR system, from a few minutes to over an hour in length time-wise. Usually, QSF will correct 10 or less errors. In some cases, no errors are reported. But in all cases, the file wasn't readable by Vegas until after QSF was run.

Interestingly, the QSF-corrected M2TS files are now not only usable by Vegas MSP, but also by other apps such as Tsmuxer and the Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition player. Splash Lite and VLC apparently had a robust-enough EDC front-end to handle the original non-corrected M2TS.

I can understand if Sony won't think this is an issue for VMSP and VMSHD. But since Vegas Pro's front-end can handle the bad M2TS, I can only hope they'll incorporate it into the lower-end NLE's.

And as an aside, in the short time I've played with VideoRedo, it seems pretty cool. I found a display option that can indicate what type of frame the current frame is ... IDR, I, P, or B. It can also allow the user to work on either frame boundaries or GOP boundaries.

I'm curious if Vegas Pro has similar features?

Here's the response from Sony tech support:

I downloaded both clips that you have submitted. I do see the error occurring in Movie Studio Platinum 9.0 with the 20 second clip. I know that there are similar issues with .m2ts clips in Vegas Platinum 9.0 that development is aware of. We are looking to fix this so I would suggest that you try downloading the next update for Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 9.0 when it becomes available. In the meantime, you can convert your clips using the trial version of Vegas Pro 9.0. If you can open them in this application you can render them out to an intermediate format for use in Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 9.0. Here is a knowledge base article that talks about this:

They have been talking about a new update for some time....Customer Service also mentioned this to me months ago.

I wonder if they aren't using the word update interchangeably with upgrade (which would likely be V10) and perhaps released at NAB?

Who knows. I don't. As other posters have said, those who don't know, talk. Those who do know, don't. I'm talking.