Motion Tracking is inaccurate and loses its object.

Al-245 wrote on 2/7/2024, 8:21 AM

I think I have performed all the right steps in this video example. The object follows the gondola at first, but then disengages.
I purchased the updates until 19 hoping this bug would be fixed, but I could never get Motion Tracking to work properly.

In addition, after 4-5 tries Vegas Pro crashes.

Where can I insert the video?

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 2/7/2024, 8:24 AM

It isn't a bug, no motion tracking is perfect and often requires manual intervention to fix bad tracking.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Al-245 wrote on 2/7/2024, 8:48 AM

Then the manufacturer needs to warn users. The money I paid for this product is fair. There is also a Pro next to the Vegas title and I bought it thinking of a Professional product, not a DIY.

RogerS wrote on 2/7/2024, 9:03 AM

Upload the video with the button with an up arrow.

Motion tracking works better with certain footage and that's true with any compositing software.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Gid wrote on 2/7/2024, 11:05 AM

@Al-245 Manufacturers do warn their customers or their customers know that trackers are only as good as the media/object they're tracking, fr0sty says 'no motion tracking is perfect' , what he's meaning is all motion trackers from all products brands aren't perfect,

I have Mocha Pro Plugin+standalone, Professional motion tracker selling at the mo for $1,495.00, that isn't perfect & needs adjustment depending on the footage, the makers themselves say in their videos things like "Mocha will get you most of the way but you'll prob have to refine the track a bit"

Vegas Pro 21 
Magix Movie Studio Platinum 2024 - from 2004-ish - Latest version,
Magix VPX14
Boris Continuum & Sapphire, 
Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, 
Boris Optics,
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(programs on one, project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 Fans
Dell SE3223Q 31.5 Inch 4K UHD (3840x2160) Monitor, 60Hz, 

I'm 55, I've been a UK joiner for 39yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that I can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 

Mohammed_Anis wrote on 2/7/2024, 11:56 AM

Then the manufacturer needs to warn users. The money I paid for this product is fair. There is also a Pro next to the Vegas title and I bought it thinking of a Professional product, not a DIY.

Suggestion.

It would be helpful to share the scene you're working on and perhaps (as a special bonus) on how you're applying it with a screen recording

If you don't know how to do a screen recording, we can help you navigate using OBS.

I count three VERY qualified professionals here who would help you immensely to get the results you're looking for.

Last changed by Mohammed_Anis on 2/7/2024, 11:58 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

"I'm a part of all that I've met." Alfred Lord Tennyson

Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/VEGASCREATIVEACADEMY


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Storage Devices: 2 SSDS, One large HD. VEGAS is installed on SSD

 

lan-mLMC wrote on 2/7/2024, 5:02 PM

Vegas's current motion tracking is still immature.

It does not have a search box like AE motion tracker to allow users to adjust the range of searchable pixels. 

This makes it impossible for the tracker to detect an object once object's motion amplitude is large.

I have suggested this to the Vegas Team long time ago, but it seems that it has not been taken seriously.

Former user wrote on 2/7/2024, 5:54 PM

Then the manufacturer needs to warn users. The money I paid for this product is fair. There is also a Pro next to the Vegas title and I bought it thinking of a Professional product, not a DIY.

Even the gold standard in tracking Mocha has problems it needs to be frame accurate so needs to see the detail in each frame or it fails. Ian said the Vegas tracker is not so good, so maybe your dislike of tracker is valid and it should be able to do what you ask. If you upload your clip Vegas and Mocha people could look at it.

But also I"m not sure how well versed you are with trackers, the re-framers that are common in NLE's but not yet Vegas use AI to track, so they are capable of tracking what a conventional tracker like Mocha can't without many many failed tracks and manual intervention. In this example if you put a conventonal tracker on singers face as she is looking at camera tracking may fail when she looks to side, turns around, leaves frame, camera zooming in and out. This 'AI tracking' has no problem with that, BUT it's not frame accurate if you wanted to put a picture on your gondola that stuck to it like glue, these can't yet do that (that I"ve seen)

(this is a single track without manual intervention)

fr0sty wrote on 2/8/2024, 12:05 AM

I have suggested this to the Vegas Team long time ago, but it seems that it has not been taken seriously.

Or perhaps they have more important things to do first, especially now that Mocha comes with VEGAS Suite. They're currently working on an engine rewrite, that is far more important to the future of VEGAS than updating a motion tracking system that is still going to be sub-par compared to Mocha, the industry standard for motion tracking.

Last changed by fr0sty on 2/8/2024, 12:08 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Al-245 wrote on 2/8/2024, 2:41 AM

Surely there is a way to solve the problem. The fact is that for a person like me of little to medium experience in video editing, the procedure is very complex. 
Since it is a known problem, and Motion Tracking procedures can change from release to release, it would be a good thing if Vegas would also update the tutorials.  The last one refers to version 17 and explains Bézier Masking (which has also been modified in recent releases). Added to this is the annoyance of continuous crashes.... And above all this seems to me not acceptable in a program that costs a lot of money and has reached its 20th release. (Intel i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz , 48 Gb RAM, nVidia 4090, with the latest updates). However, I decided to ask a video editing expert and will pay a few hours of his time for a lesson on how to get a satisfactory result. As I had written before, I was able to clip the object to another, but when I start the track and thus the motion, the two objects after a few seconds separate. 
I will write the step-by-step procedures, take screenshots at each step, and post here the results because I read that many others are in my situation.
See you soon and thanks for the comments!

 

RogerS wrote on 2/8/2024, 3:16 AM

Are these tutorials not up to date?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/video-editing/how-to-use-planar-motion-tracking/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/ca/video-editing/video-stabilization-motion-tracking-workflows-to-boost-videos/

Where the track fails can you redo that keyframe and then track forwards from there? Some intervention isn't unusual for tracking software, especially if there are areas of low contrast between subjects and backgrounds during the track.

Crashing is a different issue and likely addressable but maybe in another thread to stay focused. FWIW, NVIDIA GPU processing and decoding seem to be a work in progress in VEGAS with some significant changes in the last build of VP 21. We'll see how it changes going forward.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

MikeS wrote on 2/8/2024, 7:45 AM

>reached its 20th release
Sure - but motion tracking wasn't introduced until Vegas Pro 16

>Motion Tracking procedures can change from release to release
Well, they've changed it once, in VP18

>Are these tutorials not up to date?
No, those are both for VP17. They changed motion tracking in VP18, giving it its own panel and removing tracking from the bezier masking effect

Vegas Post 21 Build 300
Boris FX Continuum for OFX 2024 Build 17.0.3.380
Boris FX Mocha Pro Plug-in 2022.5 v11.0.1 Build 13
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Al-245 wrote on 2/8/2024, 7:57 AM

Thanks for the reply RogerS, Vegas does update its publicity, but as I wrote in the 2/7/2024, 3:21 PM message, I have version 19 and have not seen a tutorial regarding Motion Tracking updated for this release. There are always variations from release to release. Thanks also for the links, but the first one is about Planar Motion Tracking which is about version 17 so an earlier version than 19 that I use. In the link the procedure is explained, but it starts from Bézier Masking (I start from Motion Tracking).  The second link explains Motion Tracking, but it refers to version 16, so an even older version. As far as the crashes I regret to disagree with you, but I don't see it as a different problem, instead it is a problem directly related to Motion Tracking because I had about 10-15 crashes in a couple of days all happening when I was using Motion Tracking.  If Vegas is up to version 19 and the crashes still occur and with this frequency, it means that this software is not stable and I am not going to wait for the solution and spend more money hoping (as I have been doing so far) that the next version will fix the problem (it might not even fix it and I unfortunately do not have infinite money for version 21, 22, etc.). For this reason, I have decided to stop buying the next updates. I am trying trial versions of other video edits and will decide in the next few days.  Thank you all for your patience and time spent to help me.

RogerS wrote on 2/8/2024, 8:09 AM

I don't see changes to Motion Tracking within the 19 release.
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-vegas-post-release-history--104998/?page=2

You didn't specify that the crashes had anything to do with motion tracking. Does it matter what media you use? Try rendering the media you are using to say Apple ProRes and replace it. If that's the issue I can suggest other ways to batch convert media to be more stable in VEGAS using free tools.

The Pro Suite now comes with Mocha which I think is a superior implementation to what VEGAS has natively and it has for it. I can't say I'm expert at using either but have experimented with this a bit in VP 21.

If you find other software that does a better job at this go for it. You can always use multiple editing platforms depending on the task at hand if there's no single one that does it all.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Reyfox wrote on 2/8/2024, 8:10 AM

Hmm... you'll try trial versions of other programs but not the trial version of VP21 to see if things are better....

Al-245 wrote on 2/8/2024, 8:24 AM

Of course, I’ll also try trial Vegas version 21. I’m going to do all the comparisons.

Gid wrote on 2/8/2024, 8:50 AM

@Al-245 Hi,

(Intel i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz , 48 Gb RAM, nVidia 4090, with the latest updates)

Can you click your icon at the top of this page - My Profile & fill in your Signature with the PC info you've provided, also inc the Windows & Vegas version, this will then show at the bottom of your comments,

Earlier you wrote -

 take screenshots at each step, and post here the results 

If you could do that it would be good, upload pictures or video of what you're tracking, esp when the track looses position. Use the arrow button next to the smiley at the top of a new comment. 👍

 

Last changed by Gid on 2/8/2024, 8:51 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Vegas Pro 21 
Magix Movie Studio Platinum 2024 - from 2004-ish - Latest version,
Magix VPX14
Boris Continuum & Sapphire, 
Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, 
Boris Optics,
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(programs on one, project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 Fans
Dell SE3223Q 31.5 Inch 4K UHD (3840x2160) Monitor, 60Hz, 

I'm 55, I've been a UK joiner for 39yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that I can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 

fr0sty wrote on 2/8/2024, 6:08 PM

Surely there is a way to solve the problem. 

Yes, you learn how to properly use the software... I motion track using VEGAS all the time, without issue. I don't blame the fact that I don't know how to use it on the software not working properly. I don't blame having to make a few manual tweaks to the motion track on the software, because I've been motion tracking long enough to realize that even the top of the line motion tracking app on the market, Mocha (which now comes with VEGAS 21 Suite), still requires manual intervention.

RogerS wrote on 2/8/2024, 8:58 PM

Gid and Frosty have quite a bit of experience with tracking and may be able to give advice to get the software to do what you need to.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7