MP4 not streaming to iPad - rendering setting?

wordman wrote on 3/18/2013, 8:51 PM
Hello All,

My new client is a webmaster who streams video from their site and they have some very specific requirements in that the file must be .mp4, have dimensions no larger than 960 x 540 (which I use) and a bit rate of no more than 2Mbps.

I render the files in Vegas Pro 9e using the MainConcept AVC/AAC type with these settings:

Audio: 128 Kbps, 44,100 Hz, 24 Bit, Stereo, AAC
Video: 23.976 fps, 960x540 Lower field first, YUV, 2 Mbps
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 0.909

They tell me that the clips will not stream to an IPad, I'm assuming they mean from the site and not just trying to play them locally.

Usually this sort of thing used to mean they were streaming with Flash, but they have other videos they produced and are apparently streaming them.

So the question is, is there a way to 'render for streaming'? Is the type and template I'm using correct? Should I use the Apple iPod templates instead?

Is it a problem I am creating with Vegas or could it be on the client's end?

Many thanks in advance!

Sincerely,

wordman

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 3/18/2013, 8:56 PM
Have you got the "progressive download" box or whatever it's called in Mainconcept checked?

Your better choice might be to encode in Handbrake. They've got encoding for iThingys whipped with customizable templates that work.
john_dennis wrote on 3/18/2013, 9:44 PM
Audio: 128 Kbps, 44,100 Hz, 24 Bit, Stereo, AAC

Did you try Field Order: None? Progressive will likely work better.

You don't state what your source pixel dimensions are, but I would change the Pixel Aspect Ratio of the render template to 1.0 Square Pixels.
wordman wrote on 3/18/2013, 10:39 PM
musicvid,

I don't see the "progressive download" anywhere in the settings.

I'm not familiar with Handbrake, so I looked them up and if I've found the right one, (handbrake.fr) it looks to be open source, which is great...there's no software budget right now.

Where should I look for the check box you mentioned?

Thanks!

Cheers,

wordman
wordman wrote on 3/18/2013, 10:41 PM
john_dennis,

I'll try the field order trick. The pixel aspect ration comes from the default template so I re-set that as well and saved it as a new template. I'll try this and let you know how it works out.

Many thanks!

Sincerely,

wordman
NormanPCN wrote on 3/18/2013, 11:40 PM
If my "streaming" you mean the file starts playing immediately without being fully downloaded, then you need to do something to your MP4 files.

Vegas 12 Main Concept AVC encoder has an "enable progressive download" option to do this for you.

Otherwise, you need to use a MP4 fast start type utility and run that on your MP4 file. It will tweak the MP4 file metadata for streaming download.
john_dennis wrote on 3/18/2013, 11:43 PM
I looked at Vegas Pro 9-11 and the progressive download checkbox didn't appear until version 11. Handbrake may be your friend.
wordman wrote on 3/18/2013, 11:55 PM
john_dennis,

Ok, that makes sense. Is Handbrake a converter?

Cheers,

wordman
dlion wrote on 3/19/2013, 12:37 AM
unless there is a specific requirement for audio as stated, i'd go with 256 / 44 / 16.
musicvid10 wrote on 3/19/2013, 10:04 AM
"HandBrake is an open-source, GPL-licensed, multiplatform, multithreaded video transcoder."

As I said, the iThingy presets work.

http://handbrake.fr/

musicvid10 wrote on 3/19/2013, 12:59 PM
As far as "fast start" utilities, use AOA MP4 Patch or Drax.
MP4Box by itself is clunky.
Do not use MP4 Fast Start because it can garble the video playback in recent Flash based players.
Laurence wrote on 3/19/2013, 1:36 PM
I would just like to say how good an option using Handbrake is. It has so much going for it. It's free, the resize is topnotch, the decomb deinterlace (should you need it) is about perfect, and the amount of quality you get out of a given bitrate as compared to all editing software mp4 renders (not just Vegas) is just not fair. It is just so much better quality at a given bitrate. It also has a tab you can check (optimize for web delivery) that gives you the progressive download feature you are looking for.

I usually render to XDCAM .mp4 these days, which feeds Handbrake perfectly. You would think that the two renders (first to XDCAM's mpeg2, then to Handbrake's h264) would give you lessor final quality, but that just isn't the case. The end renders are just top quality. I used to use the Avid codec, but occasionally I would get audio glitches so I switched. In spite of the XDCAM .mp4's smaller size, I have yet to notice a difference in quality.

Laurence wrote on 3/19/2013, 1:38 PM
Another thing better about using the progressive download flag is that it works better with the Apple TV if you are using the wireless video feature. Without the progressive download flag, the whole video needs to transfer to the Apple TV. With it, you get almost immediate playback on the Apple TV.
wordman wrote on 3/19/2013, 3:31 PM
Laurence,

Fantastic information, thank you so much! Do you think I should re-render these clips using the XDCAM EX .mp4 or just go with running the existing files through Handbrake?

Again, thank you so much for the great information!

Sincerely,

wordman
john_dennis wrote on 3/19/2013, 4:48 PM
"I should re-render these clips using the XDCAM EX .mp4 or just go with running the existing files through Handbrake?

If you're thinking of running your ~2 mbps files through Handbrake, don't. You'll get a better result if you render to a high bitrate intermediate, like XDCAM EX that Laurence suggested.
wordman wrote on 3/19/2013, 4:54 PM
jihn_dennis,

Thank you for that. Let me ask you this, what setting(s) in HandBrake should I use to allow these clips to stream to an iPad but also not interfere with any other viewing device?

Specifically, I don't JUST an iPad-only format, so (and I apologize for this being so confusing) what settings are the best for i-devices and computers?

Many, mnay thanks!

Sincerely,

wordman
john_dennis wrote on 3/19/2013, 9:06 PM
I'm not the Handbrake expert. Look at the presets, tinker and search the site.
musicvid10 wrote on 3/19/2013, 9:46 PM
Post your questions on the Handbrake forum, the developers are active there.
JVonD wrote on 10/9/2014, 8:45 PM
Yeah the format your looking for is what Apple calls "hinted" for streaming. I used to encode with Quicktime Pro but since I don't do RTSP streaming anymore I don't really need it. I'm also looking for a solution from Sony Vegas because Youtube tells me that my MP4 files aren't in a streaming format and would process faster if they were and wouldn't need re-encoding possibly..?
I'm not planning on re-encoding so not to big a deal but it would be nice if it were there right in Vegas.