Try the Voukoder plugin for Vegas Pro 20. It has its own relationship with the GPU hardware.

Hi John;

Any unintended consequences installing Voukoder? For years I have seen dire warnings about Codec packs. Is it possible to remove Voukoder after installing? Does it mess with the bundled Vegas codecs?

Thanks,
Steve

Glad that it is working for you know with the driver update.

Here are all the "graphs" I can show in Task Manager. And no, you can't display them all at once.

Try the Voukoder plugin for Vegas Pro 20. It has its own relationship with the GPU hardware.

Hi John;

Any unintended consequences installing Voukoder? For years I have seen dire warnings about Codec packs. Is it possible to remove Voukoder after installing? Does it mess with the bundled Vegas codecs?

Thanks,
Steve

Voukoder is not a codec pack. It takes frames straight from VEGAS and encodes it using various open source libraries. I use it myself with x264 (CPU only) though it can also work with AMD encoding, etc.

So; render times are the same. Timeline performance still acceptable (much better than the RX570).

I guess at this point the only reasonably easy thing left is a CPU upgrade (gulp). That's a big deal, fraught with peril. But just for the sake of argument, let's say I stick with my Asus Prime X299-A (Skylake-X) Socket 2066 LGA. Currently have an Intel Core i7 7820-X 3.6 GHz. Everything is quite stable. I originally chose that over the i9 based on quite a few benchmarks and sage advice.

Any recommendations on a better CPU? Something stable that will work with my mombo, not be glitchy but give substantial improvement?

 

My current Passmark:

https://www.passmark.com/baselines/V11/display.php?id=206393233224

It was gratifying to see how much nicer that 7600 XT is than the RX570. And the graphics test definitely pegged the GPU utilization at times, the fans were roaring. Kind of gratifying.

Thanks,

Steve

I think there may be a sunk cost fallacy here- how much do you want to invest in a system that is years out of date?

It looks like the latest CPU that would work is a 10th generation Intel X CPU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_2066

If the price is right go for it. Otherwise 12-14 gen have big improvements over 10th generation and everything else is also getting faster (ram, m2 SSDs, etc.)

A 13th gen i5 scores 38000 on Passmark: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-13600K&id=5008

The driver update helped! Thanks everyone, making progress. The Corsair Link is missing the GPU now, odd. Device Manager still has only the Video Codec 0 (with the RX 570 it had several Video Encode graphs). Not that concerned about it at this time.

Stand by for some better benchmarks

.

 

 

Steve

Uncheck "enable legacy AVC decoding" to use AMD GPU decoding with AVC media.

The driver update helped! Thanks everyone, making progress. The Corsair Link is missing the GPU now, odd. Device Manager still has only the Video Codec 0 (with the RX 570 it had several Video Encode graphs). Not that concerned about it at this time.

Stand by for some better benchmarks

.

 

 

Steve

 

Uncheck "enable legacy AVC decoding" to use AMD GPU decoding with AVC media.

Spent a couple of hours testing various combinations of "Legacy" GPU settings. The results were counterintuitive, please see this Word doc for details. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndU67_q43O6A1-PFER7ye1b7fsvv1Tpq/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108422539487045199261&rtpof=true&sd=true

Conclusions:

Best rendering times were with Legacy GPU rendering disabled but Legacy AVC Decode enabled! This combo yielded about 5 fps improvement. It also resulted in higher CPU and Video Codec 0 GPU utilization.

Scratching my head.

The test doesn't state what media was used. Try testing with a variety of AVC media and see if it holds true that the older CPU only decoder is faster for playback. Higher CPU usage is expected.

For legacy GPU rendering did you actually use a legacy GPU setting under SonyAVC? I don't recommend it.

Why did you choose peak constrained over a default VCE setting?

The test doesn't state what media was used. Try testing with a variety of AVC media and see if it holds true that the older CPU only decoder is faster for playback. Higher CPU usage is expected.

For legacy GPU rendering did you actually use a legacy GPU setting under SonyAVC? I don't recommend it.

Why did you choose peak constrained over a default VCE setting?

Hi;

You are correct about the sunk-cost fallacy. I'm starting my research for my new build. I like ASUS and am leaning toward this:
https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/proart/proart-z790-creator-wifi/techspec/

I had naively hoped the Radeon 7600 XT would double my rendering performance. Oh well. I'll probably fool around a little with the various settings, but any performance gains will be minimal.

Regarding my workflow and other items, my media is mixed GoPro Hero10 2.7k 60fps 100 Mbps with 1080p60fps Samsung S22 B-roll. I would prefer to shoot with the GoPro in UHD 60fps, but that means the files are h.265 HEVC and its a pain to have to transcode them for editing. I fly paragliders so I need a reasonably fast workflow to post videos to my channel with some rapidity. 2.7k is a reasonable trade-off for resolution and sharpness. I used to render to 2.7k (2704x1520), but YouTube will process them to a max resolution of 1440p60fps, so I started rendering to 2160p60fps, which actually looks pretty good on a big OLED TV. They process faster on YT also, because 2160p is one of standard input formats.

That Legacy GPU rendering was a holdover from earlier Vegas settings and I turned it off. Regarding the Peak Constrained and other mods to that default Magix AMD VCE format, that is part of on-going tweaking to try to make the PG vids look better on YT. PG vids have lots of sky and clouds and minimizing compression banding is a struggle.

Here's a recent sample from my January Colombia flycation:

Here is the MediaInfo for the files used in the video
S22:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BmzxNqkCv9VczyIpQOnz7EBDMggjFarn/view?usp=drive_link

GoPro:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lAxz1kC65Ij29sP3zbkXtf_k2HAa8pT6/view?usp=drive_link

I really, really appreciate all the handholding and support. I have learned a lot, and y'all helped me solve several problems!

Steve

Rich Parry and I both use that motherboard. I use water while he uses air cooling. The board has been trouble-free for me for a year. This is how the sausage was made:

System Upgrade 2023

 

That Legacy GPU rendering was a holdover from earlier Vegas settings and I turned it off. Regarding the Peak Constrained and other mods to that default Magix AMD VCE format, that is part of on-going tweaking to try to make the PG vids look better on YT. PG vids have lots of sky and clouds and minimizing compression banding is a struggle.

If you did record in HEVC 10bit and operate in 32bit mode in Vegas , and render in 10bit you might future proof your videos if YT ever make the conversion over to 10bit for non HDR videos, your blue sky banding would go away. Problem is if you do upload in 10bit it's Google that does the conversion to 8bit and I"m not sure how good that is.

But you speak about fast efficient editing, and this would require transcoding your HEVC files, working and rendering in slow Vegas 32bit mode, so probably would not work for you.

Rich Parry and I both use that motherboard. I use water while he uses air cooling. The board has bee trouble-free for me for a year. This is how the sausage was made:

System Upgrade 2023

Wow! It's great that I independently arrived at something that the experts are using.

I do have a couple of concerns /Questions.

This will be only the second build I have ever done. I've got a monster case it's a Corsair. Right now I'm using the Corsair H115i water cooler. It fits nicely on my Intel I 7 7820x CPU, which uses the 2066 socket. Will I be able to put that same water cooler heat transfer plate onto the new 13 gen Intel CPU I plan to install?

My current motherboard is the Asus Prime x299-a. The little IO modules that stick up from the motherboard in the upper right corner fit nicely into a cutout on the case right next to the top back fan. Does anyone know if the size of the io modules on that pro-art motherboard are the same size as the io section on my x299?

Steve

Look at this Corsair upgrade kit and verify it meets your cooler requirements.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/p/pc-components-accessories/cw-8960091/lga1700-retrofit-kit-cw-8960091

I policy-replaced my previous cooler that ran for six years.

The I/O tailgate on the motherboard is defined by the ATX standard and is the same.

Unlike the X99 and X299, the LGA 1700 processor is on one side of the DIMMs instead of in the middle. I had to nibble the opening behind the processor on my old case.

Not to worry, I’ve had a chassis nibbler for fifty years.

Partial Build

Look at this Corsair upgrade kit and verify it meets your cooler requirements.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/p/pc-components-accessories/cw-8960091/lga1700-retrofit-kit-cw-8960091

I policy-replaced my previous cooler that ran for six years.

The I/O tailgate on the motherboard is defined by the ATX standard and is the same.

Unlike the X99 and X299, the LGA 1700 processor is on one side of the DIMMs instead of in the middle. I had to nibble the opening behind the processor on my old case.

Not to worry, I’ve had a chassis nibbler for fifty years.

Partial Build

Good info, thanks.

My 2017 H115i is pre-elite series. That kit supposedly does not work with anything older than elite. I have a support email in with Corsair about this. Not holding my breath that they will answer, back in 2017 they would never answer their emails. I'll also try real time chat on Monday. I'm guessing I'm going to have to replace the cooler which is annoying.

Steve

There are some great modern coolers on the market these days that can handle the higher heat of new Intels. Check Gamers Nexus YouTube and other sites for reviews that balance cost, noise and performance.

I had naively hoped the Radeon 7600 XT would double my rendering performance. Oh well. I'll probably fool around a little with the various settings, but any performance gains will be minimal.

Regarding my workflow and other items, my media is mixed GoPro Hero10 2.7k 60fps 100 Mbps with 1080p60fps Samsung S22 B-roll. I would prefer to shoot with the GoPro in UHD 60fps, but that means the files are h.265 HEVC and its a pain to have to transcode them for editing. I fly paragliders so I need a reasonably fast workflow to post videos to my channel with some rapidity. 2.7k is a reasonable trade-off for resolution and sharpness. I used to render to 2.7k (2704x1520), but YouTube will process them to a max resolution of 1440p60fps, so I started rendering to 2160p60fps, which actually looks pretty good on a big OLED TV. They process faster on YT also, because 2160p is one of standard input formats.

That Legacy GPU rendering was a holdover from earlier Vegas settings and I turned it off. Regarding the Peak Constrained and other mods to that default Magix AMD VCE format, that is part of on-going tweaking to try to make the PG vids look better on YT. PG vids have lots of sky and clouds and minimizing compression banding is a struggle.

Here's a recent sample from my January Colombia flycation:

Here is the MediaInfo for the files used in the video
S22:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BmzxNqkCv9VczyIpQOnz7EBDMggjFarn/view?usp=drive_link

GoPro:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lAxz1kC65Ij29sP3zbkXtf_k2HAa8pT6/view?usp=drive_link

I really, really appreciate all the handholding and support. I have learned a lot, and y'all helped me solve several problems!

Steve

 

For your cameras you may be able to edit them in 2.7K or 4K HEVC without transcoding. I've tested similar with VEGAS and the Intel decoder built into my K CPU. As long as it's not 10-bit 422 it should work okay.

For the phone you can see it's variable framerate which VEGAS doesn't love, but may also work acceptably now.

Happy to test a file or two with legacy decoding off and the Intel iGPU in use if you'd like to make them available.

Understood about the issues with compression banding and hope you find a combination that works well. FWIW, as a viewer in any scenes with sky and land I'm not looking at the sky as there isn't much to focus on there. The landscape is incredible and gets my full attention.

Just for fun, I was thinking of trying Voukoder for Vegas 20. I've always heard horror stories about installing codec packs, is the Voukoder safe? Can I remove it if I don't like it? What are the unintended consequences?

So; render times are the same. Timeline performance still acceptable (much better than the RX570).

I guess at this point the only reasonably easy thing left is a CPU upgrade (gulp). That's a big deal, fraught with peril. But just for the sake of argument, let's say I stick with my Asus Prime X299-A (Skylake-X) Socket 2066 LGA. Currently have an Intel Core i7 7820-X 3.6 GHz. Everything is quite stable. I originally chose that over the i9 based on quite a few benchmarks and sage advice.

Any recommendations on a better CPU? Something stable that will work with my mombo, not be glitchy but give substantial improvement?

 

My current Passmark:

https://www.passmark.com/baselines/V11/display.php?id=206393233224

It was gratifying to see how much nicer that 7600 XT is than the RX570. And the graphics test definitely pegged the GPU utilization at times, the fans were roaring. Kind of gratifying.

Thanks,

Steve

I think there may be a sunk cost fallacy here- how much do you want to invest in a system that is years out of date?

It looks like the latest CPU that would work is a 10th generation Intel X CPU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_2066

If the price is right go for it. Otherwise 12-14 gen have big improvements over 10th generation and everything else is also getting faster (ram, m2 SSDs, etc.)

A 13th gen i5 scores 38000 on Passmark: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-13600K&id=5008

i9-10900X looks the the fastest Cascade lake CPU I could install in my X299. Any guesses as to how much faster it would be with Vegas and my i7-7820X?

I don't think that Passmark or user benchmarks in general are going to show me how much benefit Vegas would gain from this processor.

Voukoder is NOT a codec pack. It uses freeware libraries to encode raw frames of video VEGAS passes to it. x264 will be substantially slower than VEGAS GPU renders but you have more control over quality and can get very good looking files that are smaller in size. There are also GPU render options. You have to install the connector to talk to VEGAS and the program itself. If you like it, do donate (I've donated a few times already).

For the new CPU, faster to do what specifically? Are you currently CPU bound for that task?
Again you can see the two benchmarks I manage that give an idea of how different CPUs and GPUs do with playback and render of these projects. Fill out both yourself and then look for scores with similar GPUs but faster CPUs.

Beyond that look at techgage which has done a number of tests with VEGAS in the past.
https://techgage.com/article/magix-vegas-pro-18-processor-graphics-card-performance/

Voukoder is NOT a codec pack. It uses freeware libraries to encode raw frames of video VEGAS passes to it. x264 will be substantially slower than VEGAS GPU renders but you have more control over quality and can get very good looking files that are smaller in size. There are also GPU render options. You have to install the connector to talk to VEGAS and the program itself. If you like it, do donate (I've donated a few times already).

For the new CPU, faster to do what specifically? Are you currently CPU bound for that task?
Again you can see the two benchmarks I manage that give an idea of how different CPUs and GPUs do with playback and render of these projects. Fill out both yourself and then look for scores with similar GPUs but faster CPUs.

Beyond that look at techgage which has done a number of tests with VEGAS in the past.
https://techgage.com/article/magix-vegas-pro-18-processor-graphics-card-performance/

 

Thanks for the Voukoder clarification.

I like Tech gauge, and I follow them for many things, including vegas. All their Vegas 18 benchmarks were done several years ago so I'm not sure how much they would apply to Vegas 20. They had hinted when they reviewed the RX 7600 that they were going to be doing an updated Vegas benchmark article, but I haven't seen it yet.

Vegas if I'm using Magix AMD VCE does not push either my CPU or my GPU to 100%. If I use a non AMD VCE codec it pushes my CPU to 100%, but renders slower than with AMD VCE

PassMark pushes the GPU to 100% and my new Radeon 7600 XT is about 3 times faster than my old RX 570, for all categories (compute, 3D, 2D) . This makes me suspect that Vegas is not using the GPU efficiently.

I hate the thought of just giving BLack Magic money for essentially what would be a test, because I don't like the DaVinci workflow at all, but I'm curious of Resolve would make better use of the GPU. ( from what I have read, the free version of Resolve does not allow you to do GPU accelerated rendering)

Part of me says don't mess with something that's not broken, at least Vegas 20.411 is very stable, much more stable than Vegas 17, and the timeline is reasonably responsive. Perhaps I should just live with 35 frames per second renders and not worry about it.

Nobody can give you the data you need, you need to interpolate based on info that exists. VP 20 is comparable though modestly faster than 18 (only real source for this is the original VP benchmark I manage; a number of users including myself update results over diff versions as well as the "Red Car" project tests done by Howard if you search this forum).

I tried to help Techgage do that updated article. It would have been based on the VP 20 sample ad project but the site doesn't seem to be updated any longer unfortunately.

VEGAS definitely is not using any GPU efficiently but 100% may not be meaningful as what Windows displays in task manager is not a full picture of what the GPU is doing. I can have my GPU doing hardcore AI work with CUDA and Windows reports it at 0% utilization. Passmark may tax your GPU's computational capabilities but not at all its decoding or encoding functions which are entirely separate.

A non-VCE render will be CPU bound so the 10th gen Intel will be faster. My 13th generation i5 will get up to about its maximum of 200W and 100% on all 14 cores with a Mainconcept or x264 render. CPU power is very important to me as my final renders are usually with Voukoder/x264. But if yours are VCE it's less relevant in terms of total time for the encode (though the faster the CPU can give the GPU frames, the faster your GPU encode will go).

The free version of Resolve doesn't do GPU decoding or encoding for the test and if you aren't planning to switch to it I don't see the point. There are other demonstrations on this forum of it being faster than VEGAS and using the GPU much more.

 

I like Tech gauge, and I follow them for many things, including vegas. All their Vegas 18 benchmarks were done several years ago so I'm not sure how much they would apply to Vegas 20. They had hinted when they reviewed the RX 7600 that they were going to be doing an updated Vegas benchmark article, but I haven't seen it yet.

Unfortunately he saw a lack of consistency with his benchmarking of Vegas especially between different brands of GPU so I think he dropped Vegas as a benchmarking tool. I don't think he necessarily had to do that, for example Adobe products always favor Intel, but it's still interesting to know how a CPU performs with Adobe products. Maybe for a general audience he felt the pool of VegasPro users were so insignificant compared to Adobe he didn't see much sense in a bench that gave unusual results that only benefited a small amount of his viewers.

Vegas benches could still come back in the future, who knows.