"What, specifically, are these "serious bugs in their code?" I mean actual bugs that anyone can reproduce on any machine. I'm not being sarcastic or flip, let's list the actual known bugs."
If you mean reproduceable at will then apart from what others have mentioned above and which one could simply dismiss as limitations or that can be worked around, then well, none.
However that does not mean that Vegas is fit for purpose. There remains a bug that is not reproduceable at will. It was the subject of a recent thread and one that I have been affected by at least twice in two end to end projects.
For some obscure reason Vegas will change the file the timeline references. All efforts to replace the file being referenced fail. The only fix is to delete the file from the project and import it again. This can result in considerable loss of work or reputation if the problem is not detected and on a large project the latter is quite probable.
One user posted that his attempts to report this problem resulted in a somewhat curt reply that it was "impossible" and "we've never heard of any such thing". In a recent conversation with the departed Lars he too has encountered this problem in his remaining Vegas project.
What makes this problem even more difficult is it's quite possible a user might encounter it and assume they'd made a mistake. I may well have seen it before and simply deleted the errant event and redone it. It was only by chance that on these two projects I had one piece of media that was over 1 hour long split into many events that I realised I could not have repeated the same mistake that many times and realising the considerable work if I simply deleted the file from the project that I tried replacing it, which simply would not work. It was only then that I realised something very serious had gone wrong with the project.
I still have the mangled project files backed up. I will try submitting a ticket although I don't hold out much hope of the problem getting any attention.
In regard to the overall stability issue with large projects that I started a thread about much to my initially pleasant surprise support raised a trouble ticket for me. I held high hopes, I even followed to the letter their advice to totally remove all traces of any SCS code or registry entries. Needless to say it made no differences. As clearly this was a live problem I offered to ship a copy of the entire project to SCS at my own expense. One would think a business that takes their products seriously would jump at the offer but no, they never replied.
Others I have been in contact with have had the same sorts of reponse. Of all the laughable replies the classic was "we don't have the hardware to run such projects". One can only hope that going forward there's a few of those $7K Supermicro PCs made available to the folks in Maddison.
>> If I have understood this, in which Camp is the King not Wearing Clothes? <<
I don't know because I am just a user and I do not have 9.-b-c vision.
What I do know is, my current project ( SD - HD mixed ) renders to MPEG2 in 8.0c. 9.0b will not even consider looking at it. It asks me to close some applications because its low on mmemory. Do I sit there and try to work out why?
I don't think so. As a moronic user, I use the tool that works. So 8.0c it is then.
Heading off in a different direction (from the normal whine moan and carry on from always the same people direction)....
The featured machines include a Nvidia® Quadro® FX580 video cards. I wonder if this spells the beginnings of a new era for Vegas (the hardware accelerated era)
"I wonder if this spells the beginnings of a new era for Vegas (the hardware accelerated era)"
It'd be very unusual to put such as massive change in a point release plus the FX580 is an entry level graphics card. You'd really be looking at the FX4800 or FX5800 for serious GPU acceleration.
"Camp-1: We have Bugs and they still need to be rectified and that a more powerful PC will EITHER uncover those bugs faster OR that these same bugs will be dealt with (squashed) by faster processing."
If I'm reading the above correctly, the second part of item 1 and item two are redundant.
What ever it is, Vegas IS what it IS today. In light of all that has been discussed in this forum over the years (nine for me), Vegas has acquired some (how shall I put it?) idiosyncrasies. Just like the rest of us, as time has progressed, Vegas has become a bit bloated. None of us, including Vegas, operate as adroitly as we did in our youth; we're not as nimble as we usd to be.
Try as we may to recapture some of our youthful vitality, dressing up in flashy spandex, donning expensive athletic shoes, and investing in the most costly fitnesses apparatus will have little affect on the actuality of our current condition.
The king may be convinced that his "new clothes" will make a difference, but in reality we know it isn't true.
Having been with Vegas these many years, I find it a tad incredulous that all I need do to "fix" Vegas' idiosyncrasies is invest in a $7000 computer(!).
A few years ago when I was a user of Magix Movie Edit Pro, there was a strange problem that plagued some users. It hit them consistently, yet others were able to work trouble free.
It turned out that certain AMD dual core processors wouldn't render to mpeg video. Not all AMD processors, just dual core one, and only those with a certain type of 'architecture'.
Magix did release a software fix, but I was left wondering, and I still wonder, was that a hardware or a software problem? Or a strange mix of the two?
And I wonder now if there is a similar issue with VP9.
>>>The group of users dropping $7 on an editing suite could buy ANY system they want.<<<
And what will they get?
Of all apps I use , those costing $3000 - $5000 crash the most while Vegas never crashes ( for me ).
The only app that crashes more than those expensive ones is Photoshop. Now, these are not frequent crashes ( once every few weeks or so, but they are easily triggered once you know what causes them and they keep dragging on from version to version )
I also remember FCP / Mac set up at a production studio that cost just as much crashing practically every other day, not too long ago, so I'm pretty sure they are used to all that. FCP doesn't even need to crash, just having to use it is already a serious detriment to production of any kind.
I can't be sure - it was a long time ago - but I think it may have been something to do with the Ligos encoder.
"The available Ligos Encoder Patch serves for improved processor support for current AMD (R) Athlon 64 (R) processors (Venice, San Diego etc.). It repairs the problem of the processor recognition of the aforementioned processors by the Encoder... A Micro code adaption by AMD, by means of the BIOS is thereby no longer compellingly necessarily
(Processor patch) however is recommended."
- This is uneventful at best. Do the apps talk to each other the way the Adobe & Apple Suites do? I already own/use all these apps and rest assured the answer is, NO! (although if set up in preferences you can send media to some of the other apps) This is just a 'Package Deal' not a true 'Suite'. Seriously need a Compositing App though)
- Why would it be called "Vegas Pro Master Suite" anyways?
Wouldn't it be more suited as say a "Content Creation Suite" or something of the sort?
- The specs of the workstations are nothing to brag about either.
I would much rather see Sony working with Workstations like the HP Z-line. I don't see how Sony could enjoy and brag about sending a Hyundai to race a BMW.
Former user
wrote on 3/29/2010, 10:37 AM
Wow - I cannot believe the price on the workstations when it would cost me around 1300 to build the exact same thing myself. Unless the Master Suite chews up 1/2 of the 4K entry fee on that first box?
Man - I gotta start building "turnkey" systems and selling them!
Vocal Point and sync2rhythm, why are you so negative? I think it's great that SCS offers this package. And if it becomes a success, we will all benefit from it (better programs, maybe more plug-ins etc).
What about cost? The applications from SCS costs more than $ 2000. Add the material from Vasst and the two year premium support - plus the hardware. I think this package has a reasonable price. And I really hope that this will be a success!
" I cannot believe the price on the workstations when it would cost me around 1300 to build the exact same thing myself"
I find that hard to believe. Those workstations are so expensive because they use top shelf components designed to run at full load 24/7 for years. There's also significant differences in the design of the mobos that makes them better performers in applications that move large amounts of data around. That's why they're used in data centres and render farms. Also included in the price generally is one years on site support with a SLA.
Two of those CPUs used in the high-end system cost about $1,600 alone!
Former user
wrote on 3/29/2010, 2:40 PM
Two of those CPUs used in the high-end system cost about $1,600 alone!
I did not say $1300 against the 7K system...but that entry level box can be built for 1500 with no issues whatsoever...including the most expensive SuperMicro board I could find...
Just saying it's expensive and there is a very large markup in here somewhere....
1. You do not know the detailed hardware specs, but ok $ 1500
2. The software cost more than $ 2000
3. Additional training from Vass is $ ????
4. Support Platinum Plan 2 years is $600
Cost and Value are two different things. This thing will be out of date before it hits the streets. Therefore, the value is even less than you quote at least for me.
Sony is making many bad moves. Are they to big too fail?
* Vegas Pro 9 (32-bit and 64-bit)........................... $ 680
* DVD Architect Pro 5............................................... $ 0
* Dolby Digital AC-3 Pro Encoder...........................????
* Vegas Pro Production Assistant..........................$ 195
* Sound Forge Pro 10.............................................. $ 400
* ACID Pro 7............................................................... $ 320
* Sony Seminar Series Training DVD's.................$ 300
* Bonus ACID Loop content for Music Creation...????
* Bonus training materials from VASST................ ???? TOTAL ex AC-3, Loops, Vasst............................. $ 1895
Platinum Support Plan 180 days*4).................. $ 600
But I guess there are more components that's not spesifiec, Case for example. But I agree, it would be nice to see the list of computer components VP is talking about.
Vocalpoint said: "Wow - I cannot believe the price on the workstations when it would cost me around 1300 to build the exact same thing myself." And: "Just saying it's expensive and there is a very large markup in here somewhere...."
My question is: How can Vocalpoint build such a system for 1300?
I did a quick search on NewEgg and found these prices:
Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit OEM......................................................175
Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz LGA 1366.............................................588
CORSAIR DOMINATOR 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 ....250
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB...........120
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB...........120
Sony Optiarc Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW..................................................25
PNY VCQFX580-PCIE-PB Quadro FX 580 512MB........................................190 Sub Total............................................................................................................1468
Plus:
Motherboard (Supermicro)..........................................................................._____
Computer Case.............................................................................................._____
Power Supply.................................................................................................._____
Key board and mouse..................................................................................._____
Production costs ..........................................................................................._____
Additional components................................................................................._____ Total................................................................................................................._____
I really hope that Vocalpoint can correct and complete this list.